Warren on June 11, 2012, 11:43:41 pm
Warren: Now you're engaging in the exact kind of rhetoric one can expect from a corrupt banker "Oooh, Occupiers Bad".
Are you saying that people enter into the Government of Money for other reasons that 1) Enriching themselves and 2) Getting to play with OPM?

Do you claim that there are high-ranking bankers out there that have nothing but a genuine concern for ensuring that their clients are given the best monetary service possible?

I claim no knowledge of the motivations of today's bankers.

Why do people enter into business? To enrich themselves.

If bankers did not have a government that they could use to distort the market and seek rents and so forth they would be (and were) an inoffensive bunch. Just like any other business.

In the absence of government banking didn't produce returns that were outside the normal band for businesses.

How is a banker using OPM  as the source of loans any different from an entrepreneur using OPM to start a business? They both want to enrich themselves.

You do realize that without banking (or the general ability to pool money together) the modern world could not exist, right?

Andreas on June 12, 2012, 03:11:42 pm
You think banks will forget that they're the government of money once the government of people goes away?
Enriching themselves is ok, that I can understand, but investment bankers have gotten addicted to playing with the source.
Much like the Music Industry is strangling creativity by trying to rig up the tastes of the audience and to create their own "stars", fiddling with the source of their domain.
Investment banking is far from the inconspicuous "money in, money out" simplicity you make it out to be, and governments have little to do with it.
Yes, the distortion that is the publicly traded corporation was part of how it got this crazy, but it's not driven by government anymore.
I don't see how they can be forced to stop manipulating the market, and they will always be able to try it, since they have control and government over such a large amount of the primary market signal-hormone - i.e. money.

They have power, and they will abuse it, now that they know how.

macsnafu on June 12, 2012, 03:41:45 pm
You think banks will forget that they're the government of money once the government of people goes away?

Um, if you have free banking, then no, banks are not the "government of money", because no bank would have an exclusive monopoly on the production of money.  The banks will face competition.  And while they may indeed try to manipulate the market and enrich themselves beyond a reasonable profit, the competition will be there or arise to take advantage of any opportunity that an existing bank or banking cartel might create. 
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

Andreas on June 12, 2012, 04:12:07 pm
There are no guarantees. We're screwed as things are now, yet I think it's careless to assume that doing away with one problem will automagically do away with the other problems.
I also think the temptation to play God-of-Markets will always be there, and that it will always be greater for bankers, whose business is the handling (manipulation) of money, than for other holders of large cash reserves, since these others will have other business as their prime concern (manufacturers manufacture, executives execute, inheritors squander, etc.). Not that it prevents them from being amateur bankers, of course, but they won't have that singular perspective on the power of money that comes from making a living out of bending cash to your will.
It's an occupational corruption, the magus malady. Just like lawyers become infatuated with the ability to bend "reality" through manipulating law, so do bankers become infatuated with being money magi. Whether it's true that all lawyers and all bankers suffer the magus malady is beside the point, some do, and the ones that do wield enough power to be a problem.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 04:55:09 pm by Andreas »

myrkul999 on June 12, 2012, 04:59:07 pm
There are no guarantees. We're screwed as things are now. I think it's careless to assume that doing away with one problem will automagically do away with all problems.

Unless it's the root problem. The monopoly that the current banking system has is what has allowed it to grow into the monstrosity that it is now.

Your other points are all very good. Bankers do tend to suffer the "magus malady" (great phrase, by the way), but, competition from those who do not will tend to keep those who do in check. I'm not going to pretend that allowing competition will completely prevent banking malfeasance, but at least it will be an aberration, instead of systemic.

Warren on June 12, 2012, 05:16:26 pm
Take the guns out of the system and everything calms down, a lot.




The more I learn about free banking the more I want to play a board game based on it. Not an old-school game but one of these modern ones where the box weighs like en pounds and there are 100s of components and cards and a massive depth of play and a high replay value. I can imagine myself happily playing this for hours. Hopefully, for my sake and the sake of my family, it would have a solitaire option.

Jeeez, I am such a dork.

Andreas on June 12, 2012, 06:20:10 pm
Take the guns out of the system and everything calms down, a lot.




The more I learn about free banking the more I want to play a board game based on it. Not an old-school game but one of these modern ones where the box weighs like en pounds and there are 100s of components and cards and a massive depth of play and a high replay value. I can imagine myself happily playing this for hours. Hopefully, for my sake and the sake of my family, it would have a solitaire option.

Jeeez, I am such a dork.

You're definitely on to something there...
In addition to the minecraft AnCap simulation, there are a lot of these things it'd be fun to simulate in games.

wdg3rd on June 12, 2012, 09:43:30 pm
Take the guns out of the system and everything calms down, a lot.

Take the government guns out.  Those in the hands of bank staff and customers threaten nobody except them (government) and other thieves.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Warren on June 12, 2012, 09:57:57 pm
Well, yes. Personal armaments would not be "in the system".

macsnafu on June 13, 2012, 09:29:52 am

The more I learn about free banking the more I want to play a board game based on it. Not an old-school game but one of these modern ones where the box weighs like en pounds and there are 100s of components and cards and a massive depth of play and a high replay value. I can imagine myself happily playing this for hours. Hopefully, for my sake and the sake of my family, it would have a solitaire option.

Jeeez, I am such a dork.

You might find this funny, then:  http://www.cracked.com/video_18427_game-thrones-board-game.html

I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

Andreas on June 13, 2012, 02:19:37 pm

The more I learn about free banking the more I want to play a board game based on it. Not an old-school game but one of these modern ones where the box weighs like en pounds and there are 100s of components and cards and a massive depth of play and a high replay value. I can imagine myself happily playing this for hours. Hopefully, for my sake and the sake of my family, it would have a solitaire option.

Jeeez, I am such a dork.

You might find this funny, then:  http://www.cracked.com/video_18427_game-thrones-board-game.html



Ugh. Game of drones.
I like my pulp fantasy with a little less pompousness, you know?


I do like the little prick. I hope all the others die, no spoilers please :D

srogerscat on January 07, 2014, 09:36:09 am
Silver and gold.   Hmmm.

OK, so Augrams and Silgrams are the currency.

Um.  Hm.  I have a mild problem with this.

Quantum Vibe  - and EFT for that matter, have insane levels of cheap energy available to use.

How much value will silver and gold, or any metal have when the extraction costs from a given volume of Terran seawater will be trivial?  Or just from rocks.  Granite has enough Uranium to justify the cost of extraction if the price of Uranium were to merely double, I've been told - and I have no idea if that factoid is tur, just what I've been told.

This is a mild problem, my WSOD is quite capable of handling use of Augrams and Silgrams in the context of a wonderful story.