Killydd on June 05, 2012, 07:43:25 pm
Not quite, in the case of Oregon.  They saw "no sales tax" and went YAY, then blinked when they got the property tax bill, especially as property values skyrocketed due to people selling off an expensive California property, using that to buy a relatively cheap house, but still overpaying for the area, driving the assessed value of everything around it up, and started voting to cut property taxes.  This resulted in a lot of unhappy people when services started getting cut to keep up with the reduced taxes.

The tax rate was reduced, but because of the increasing assessed value tax collections actually increased. At least until the 'bubble' burst.
Actually, with some other things, it didn't.  Historically, there was a frequent tax rebate when collected taxes exceeded projections from two years before, and then that became expected, and when one year they wanted to use that to cover the increased costs of more people in the state, someone decided to write into law that the rebate must happen.  Of course, since the state was forbidden by law to go into debt, the projections had to be lower than what they would actually collect to make sure that they could budget well, actual revenue had to be reduced.  Of course, my memory of these events is further complicated by the fact that at the same time, there was a rebalancing of education dollars, siphoning money away from the type of school that I attended, which just magnified the effect of funding loss on my education. 

ex-Gooserider on June 09, 2012, 12:32:53 am
As one from Taxachussetts that frequently border hops in order to get the 6.25% shopping discount, and has several friends in NH, I would point out that while NH doesn't have a state sales tax or personal income tax, they DO have high property tax rates, and business taxes that are on the high side...

Bottom line is the difference in total taxes between MA and NH isn't nearly as great as many people think that it is...  There is a difference, but most of it is explained by the lower level of gov't services in NH...

The folks that really get screwed are the large number that live in NH, and work in MA - as they get to pay the higher NH property taxes AND the MA income tax.  Unfortunately, for reasons that aren't as clear as one would hope, there are more / better paying jobs in MA, so there are a LOT of cross border commuters...

Since I got hurt, we have strong reasons to stay in MA (I don't like it, but I make out quite well under RomneyCare...) but we were looking somewhat at making the move to NH before that happened.   The GF is the primary breadwinner as a principal software engineer, and what she found when looking at employment options is that there were very few openings in NH, compared to what there are in MA...

Someways it doesn't speak well of the claimed economic advantages of an at least somewhat freer society...  NH has historically been "more free" than MA, arguably more so since the FSP got going, but despite this, the highly socialist MA is the one that has ended up with more of the jobs, better educational institutions (sorry, but NH doesn't have any comparison to Harvard / MIT / etc...) the 128 belt computer industry, and so on...

ex-Gooserider

mellyrn on June 09, 2012, 04:59:45 am
Quote
Someways it doesn't speak well of the claimed economic advantages of an at least somewhat freer society...

Imagine two governmentally-equal regions -- two AnCaps, two absolute monarchies, whatever, just so's they're the same -- one with the terrain of MA and the other with that of NH, and start them off at the tech level of, say, AD 1600.  There should be some differences.  4 centuries on should have multiplied the differences.  With software, terrain doesn't matter so much, so the more mountainous land has a chance to catch up when that arises, but there will still be a lack of other industry & peripherals (available pizza?)  I live within 100 miles of DC and we only just got DSL in our neighborhood late last year.

Rees-Mogg and Davidson refer intriguingly to what they call "megapolitical" factors, of which sheer geography is one.  Disease is another; possibly if North America hadn't been devastated by plague two years before the Pilgrims landed, America might not be quite so European today.

In short, it might speak volumes for a freer society that NH has as much as it does; I'm not saying that IS the case, but only that we don't know how much to attribute to which factors.

Andreas on June 09, 2012, 06:51:32 am
Which is cause and which is effect?
If a low-revenue state is right next to a high-revenue state, the low-revenue state may find that many residents will be working across the border.
That's a problem; the residents will likely be consuming services where they live, but they're paying income tax across the border from there, and the companies they work for are over there too. In those cases, the only way to cover the expense of these borderwalkers will be to up the tax on residency, property tax.
Of course, in a free state they could also drop all subsidy of services, but that might drive away residents, the ones in gainful cross-border employ (who are already taxed), and the ones of local employ, who aren't highly confident in their continued employment (who is, these days?).
Not that it couldn't work, it could, but raising property taxes is clearly one way of trying to cope.

SandySandfort on June 09, 2012, 08:53:37 am
The folks that really get screwed are the large number that live in NH, and work in MA - as they get to pay the higher NH property taxes AND the MA income tax.  Unfortunately, for reasons that aren't as clear as one would hope, there are more / better paying jobs in MA, so there are a LOT of cross border commuters...

Sounds like a business opportunity to this market anarchist. Start a business that creates new jobs in NH. That should help reduce the cross-border commutes.

Andreas on June 09, 2012, 12:01:16 pm
Of course, there are rumors that in Europe there are places where you can avoid taxes ('cept VAT) by living in a place that taxes only local income, and working in the next country over, where they tax only residents.

customdesigned on June 09, 2012, 04:57:52 pm
The folks that really get screwed are the large number that live in NH, and work in MA - as they get to pay the higher NH property taxes AND the MA income tax.  Unfortunately, for reasons that aren't as clear as one would hope, there are more / better paying jobs in MA, so there are a LOT of cross border commuters...

Sounds like a business opportunity to this market anarchist. Start a business that creates new jobs in NH. That should help reduce the cross-border commutes.

A critical resource for any information economy job (software, games, web comics, etc) is a "fat pipe".  Mountainous terrain (NY) means low population density - attractive to "knowlege workers", but not to "fat pipe" builders.  My Dad lives in San Diego, also mountainous, and also few fat pipes.  An entrepreneur invested in an (expensive) fat pipe installation, then distributes it over a wide area via a wireless network.  Each customer is suppied with a router that relays packets wirelessly for other customers as well as locally.  (This is called a "lily pad" network.)  This brings broadband at reasonable cost to lots of residents like my Dad, and a reasonable profit for the guy that set it all up.  And the upstream ISP is happy too - they don't have to worry about build-out in a low density area.

 

anything