mellyrn on June 01, 2012, 06:32:11 am
Quote
You think I'm Team-Trill-girl?

Yes.

Quote
Prove it or shut up.

No.

I only have to "prove it" if I'm interested in convincing someone, and then only to that other person's satisfaction -- not to yours, not to anyone else's.

Your grasp (such as it is) of logic is, how shall I say, distinctive.

Quote
Or as my mother used to say, shit or get off the pot!

As Truman liked to say, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 08:00:25 am
Well, that was...enlightening.

I've created a new account, but it's only temporary. I didn't want to just disappear without explanation, but between getting my account hacked, and having both myrkul999 and mellyrn publicly accuse me of faking it all, I've decided this forum is just too...I guess the best word is surreal for my tastes.

I'm a trifle busy this morning, so I'll post a few final replies later.

macsnafu on June 01, 2012, 09:36:39 am
That was uncalled-for.

I don't approve of deleting all the old posts, if for no other reason than now we all look like we're talking to ourselves.
I don't approve of the hacking of the account. That's not cool.

No matter how much of a troll the person is, there's no need to do any of that.
Yeah, right. Hey, now no one can see Girly-trolls posts, just your replies. It make him/them look like a real s**t-faced jerk. That's what you want, right?

Plus the guy was a major woos. He's probably gay. All that crap about "human decency" and bein a Christian and wanting to help other people. Made me want to puck my guts. I don't remember who but someone here said anarchy was the best form of social darwinism. Not that I believe in evolution; liberal elistist lie likfe "global warming". But yeah if you can't make it on your own, you should just die and make room for someone who can. Screw all that welfare and social ponzi security schemem and osama-obamacare crap. People are supoose to pull themselves up by theyre own bootstraps not get handouts from government. That just lets all those weak slobs make more kids just like them. Anarchyll get rid of them in a hurry.

O--kay, now the TrollKiller is starting to sound like a troll.  This is not an improvement.

I'm just saying the same kind of things you guys say or think, only in my own way. I'm glad I finally found people who think like I do.

That's why I did you guys a favor and got rid of team-gay-troll for you.

As Andreas said, don't do us any "favors".

And if you really think you're saying the same kind of things we're saying, you're not reading carefully enough.
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

macsnafu on June 01, 2012, 09:43:56 am
Well, that was...enlightening.

I've created a new account, but it's only temporary. I didn't want to just disappear without explanation, but between getting my account hacked, and having both myrkul999 and mellyrn publicly accuse me of faking it all, I've decided this forum is just too...I guess the best word is surreal for my tastes.

I'm a trifle busy this morning, so I'll post a few final replies later.


I'd say more mysterious than enlightening.  Trollkiller went way over the top to be genuine.

Naturally, you'd deny it if you actually did fake it, but of course you'd deny it if you are truly innocent.  Unfortunately, that means a denial on your part doesn't prove anything one way or the other.

I wonder if there's anything an admin might be able to see that would prove what happened.
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 10:06:05 am

I'd say more mysterious than enlightening.  Trollkiller went way over the top to be genuine.


I know you'd like to think so, but I've heard and read people who make him sound like the voice of reason, so I can't afford to be that complacent. I tried to warn you people that you sound like members of a reactionary patriot militia group, especially your obsession with guns. Your rhetoric draws in people like Trollkiller like flies to dung. He may have been the only one (so far) to delurk and take action, but God only knows how many others are out there reading, nodding their heads, and thinking, "Yeah, you guys are one of us!"

Is that what you really want?

Quote

Unfortunately, that means a denial on your part doesn't prove anything one way or the other.


I don't have to prove anything. First, innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

Second, despite mellyrn's obnoxious dogmatism, the burden of proof is always on those who make public accusations, not on the accused. That's a central tenet of rational discourse. Check this out:

http://www.anomalist.com/commentaries/pseudo.html

Truzzi is specifically referring to scientific debate over anomalous claims, but the sentiment applies to any form of discourse. myrkul999 and mellyrn have made a claim (accusation); they have to prove it right, I'm not required to prove it wrong. The fact that "everyone else" on this forum may find their explanation more plausible is irrelevant, according to Truzzi (though I seriously doubt everyone here does).

But I won't hold my breath.

Quote

I wonder if there's anything an admin might be able to see that would prove what happened.


Based on past experience, I would say no. Most forum software can't tell if someone cracked my password from the outside. IP addresses are no help, because an identical address can just mean the hacker used another computer on the same system, and addresses change. Even if it can somehow be shown that the activity came from my computer, the hacker could have turned my computer into a "zombie".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie_%28computer_science%29

I'm looking into that as I type.

So there isn't really any way to tell on the forum server end whether someone else did all this stuff.

Andreas on June 01, 2012, 10:09:11 am
I guess if TG wants she can ask Scott to give a statement of plausibility on their being the same person, based on the IP data this site logs.

Such a comparison can be evidence, but only if it shows that identity is implausible. There are ways of faking a far-off IP, but I doubt such levels of obfuscation would have been in place.
Not that it's really relevant.
If TG says they're not the same, I have no real interest in thinking otherwise.
I certainly don't feel like prolonging discussion of that particular incident.
Linguistically, I think the intruder seemed relatively consistent with the inbred script kiddie pukes that make up such a large percentage of teens these days.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 10:30:35 am by Andreas »

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 10:37:49 am

I guess if TG wants she can ask Scott to give a statement of plausibility on their being the same person, based on the IP data this site logs.


Since I replied to macsnafu, I received word from my anti-malware company that their copy of the scan I did on my computer last night revealed the presence of a known zombie trojan horse. They sent me a special program to run on my computer to root out and destroy the TH itself and all the files it deposited on my harddrive. I will start running it in a few minutes. Once it's done, that should stop Trollkiller from using my computer again. I've also purchased an upgrade that will prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

Quote

Linguistically, I think the intruder seemed relatively consistent with the inbred script kiddie pukes that make up such a large percentage of teens these days.


Ordinarily that would be convincing, but someone who has a vested interest in believing I'm Trollkiller could just claim I imitated that style.

That's the problem with dealing with irrational mindsets; logic, reasoning, and evidence doesn't work. They'll always find a new justification for shoring up their beliefs.

macsnafu on June 01, 2012, 10:39:34 am

I'd say more mysterious than enlightening.  Trollkiller went way over the top to be genuine.


I know you'd like to think so, but I've heard and read people who make him sound like the voice of reason, so I can't afford to be that complacent. I tried to warn you people that you sound like members of a reactionary patriot militia group, especially your obsession with guns. Your rhetoric draws in people like Trollkiller like flies to dung. He may have been the only one (so far) to delurk and take action, but God only knows how many others are out there reading, nodding their heads, and thinking, "Yeah, you guys are one of us!"

Is that what you really want?

And now you try a very strange argument, indeed, and make me wonder if you really did fake this.  Reality is what it is, and it can't be helped if sometimes the truth is more complicated than most people would like it to be.  But then you've had trouble understanding us all along.  For example, I have no obsession with guns, so that's purely a misconception of me.

You're the one who's bringing this internet drama to the forum, and trying once more to drag us around on tangents.


I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

mellyrn on June 01, 2012, 10:46:33 am
Quote
Linguistically, I think the intruder seemed relatively consistent with the inbred script kiddie pukes that make up such a large percentage of teens these days.

I thought it seemed more like an imitation of that, than the real thing.  I can imagine your kiddie-puke laughing at me for my mistake -- but that "prove it!" reaction I find . . . odd for the breed.

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 11:13:22 am

And now you try a very strange argument....


You must have led a very sheltered life not to be exposed to the toxic vitriol of the militia movement. Either that, or you've scrupulously avoided finding out. I'm old enough to remember when this stuff was freely discussed in mainstream society, before attitudes changed and it went underground.

Their hatred of the government and taxes rivals that of the people on this forum. They also believe the government is criminal, evil, and fascist, that there should be no regulation or even no government, that the free market should be the guiding force of society. I'm not really surprised such people lurk on this forum. You really need to Google and read some of what these people write. While you'll probably disagree with most of it, you'll find their core beliefs eerily familiar.

Quote

For example, I have no obsession with guns, so that's purely a misconception of me.


Very well, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same way. But you sidestep the fact that many others here are obsessed. I still remember one member saying,

Here's my bumper sticker:

Invest in precious metals (and then it lists three gun making alloys)

I remember seeing a similarly worded bumper sticker for sale on a patriot movement website. One that advocated armed resistance against the government.

So you'll forgive me if I find comments by various members here disturbing.

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 11:35:48 am

TeamTroll


Yes, of course.

I've been active in Internet forums since the mid-nineties, when it was usenet. None of you have said anything I haven't heard before. In fact, you're rank amateurs when it comes to cyberbullying.

The term 'troll' has a legitimate definition, but anymore it tends to be used as an ad hominem to attack people who make arguments that cannot be refuted. So calling me a troll is compliment rather than an insult, because it's an admission that my arguments are having an effect, casting doubt on your ideologies. The same is true of your claims regarding my logic. It has become de rigueur to automatically reject the logic of an opponent's rational arguments, especially when they can't be refuted, and then come up with the most twisted, forced arguments possible to support that rejection.

But you really missed an opportunity to accuse me of being passive-aggressive, like the people of one forum did when I steadfastly refused to engage in the flamewars that passed for reasoned discourse there.

Dark Stranger on June 01, 2012, 11:37:23 am
Fascinating thread. First post, hello everyone.

I glanced over at the forum just to see, and this thread was the first thing that came up. TeamGirl, let me just say that your trolling is some of the best I've ever seen. You guys are lucky to have her, and when she's gone you'll all talk about the good old days of the forum when TeamGirl was here. Sure, we didn't like her, but she did keep things interesting. I wonder where she is these days.

Anyway, just wanted to throw out some kudos for a game well played. You guys should be more appreciative of what you got. A woman like that doesn't come around every day. And the fact that she's not a real woman just makes it more exciting.

Well, I'm off again. Kind of a strange morning so far. I wonder what else I'll find wandering these golden plains?

macsnafu on June 01, 2012, 11:54:51 am

And now you try a very strange argument....


You must have led a very sheltered life not to be exposed to the toxic vitriol of the militia movement. Either that, or you've scrupulously avoided finding out. I'm old enough to remember when this stuff was freely discussed in mainstream society, before attitudes changed and it went underground.
See, this is typical of your tactics, trying to drag us off into tangents.  Sure, I'm familiar with militia movements, and I've been on the internet since the late 90's on various newsgroups.  But that's all beside the point.  The strange argument you made was that my ideas somehow attract nuts and wackos, and therefore, I ought to abandon them. 

Reality is what it is, regardless of human opinion.  As long as I've got something that's true, it would be ridiculous to abandon it just because someone misunderstands it.  The obvious thing to do, if it's worthwhile, is to try to correct the misunderstanding. 
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 12:02:46 pm

I'm calling bullshit.


Yes, of course. Your ability to leap to these kinds of conclusions with little or no evidence is just astounding. You should join a circus.

Quote

TeamGirl originally presented him/themselves as a fictionalized mated pair of women. When that failed to get the desired effect, he deleted all previous posts, removed the picture, and essentially, started over from scratch, this time apparently posting as himself (the author).


Funny thing that; I didn't do that either. I know, you don't believe me, but that's beside the point. When my posts disappeared I assumed a moderator took exception to my personae, and I expected my account to be canceled at any moment. Considering that the personae were meant to be humorous and a way to diffuse potentially emotional situations, but were met with derision and ridicule, even infantile innuendo about my personality, I figured it was probably for the best. So I eliminated all my personal information that I could in anticipation of the account vanishing, but when it didn't right away I started posting again. By the time I figured out the account wouldn't be cancelled, it no longer mattered whether I had a picture or personal information or not.

So I don't know what happened the first time. It's possible Trollkiller made a dry run, or he hoped I'd "take the hint" and disappear. Ot it might have been something else entirely. Whatever. Why didn't I report it? Because in the past when this kind of thing happened one of the moderators either did it or was in collusion with whoever did. Besides, once the posts are deleted, they can't be recovered, so I didn't see any point.

In any event, unless you have some proof that I deleted my own posts for some nefarious reason, your accusation just sounds like a petty snide remark.

Quote

That appears to have not worked either, since it has now moved on to this Colbert-style parody of what he thinks of us.


You must think I'm a really dangerous character! Not sure what you thought I wanted to "work", but I don't think you know either, otherwise you would have expounded on it.

Update: the program my anti-malware people sent me is finished and appears to have cleaned up my computer. No guarantees, but I don't believe Trollkiller can get on the forum anymore, at least not through my computer. Of course, he could come back using his own computer, but I can't do anything about that.

Quote

In short, [a]side from doing us all a favor by deleting that ridiculous "Escape from Ceres" story...


 :D Do you seriously believe that people won't remember you saying my story was "cool", or that you praised me on the handling of the science at one point? Still, your ability to rewrite reality was one of the more humorous aspects of our discussions.

TeamGirl-Redu on June 01, 2012, 12:08:15 pm

Quote

Prove it or shut up.


No.

I only have to "prove it" if I'm interested in convincing someone, and then only to that other person's satisfaction -- not to yours, not to anyone else's.


You're describing a personal belief system, a worldview, an ideology. You don't need evidence to believe it.

However, when you start claiming your personal beliefs are "the truth", then you are making a claim, and you are then obligated to prove it.

You really need to read this: http://www.anomalist.com/commentaries/pseudo.html

Truzzi's comments apply to any form of rational discourse.

Of course, you and I both know that you were simple making a bitter, snide insult, but that's really beside the point. Simply common courtesy and decency demands that having made such an accusation you should try to prove it.