sam on May 16, 2012, 04:24:32 pm
VAWA was an attempt to address the problem of women not reporting violent crimes.  It provides, among other things, that an arrest *must* be made when a female accuses a male of violence, regardless of any corroborating evidence, or lack of it.

And regardless of who initiated the violence.

Surely it would make a lot more sense to arrest a black whenever a white accuses him, regardless of any evidence or the lack of it, since the criminality level among blacks, even black women, is considerably higher than the criminality level among white males.

It would also make a lot more sense to arrest a non property owner whenever a white property owner accuses him, since the crime rate among non property owners is substantially higher than that among property owning whites.

So let us have automatic arrest for blacks in conflict with whites, and non property owners in conflict with property owners.

In general, the primary function of VAWA is to break up families, rendering children fatherless, so that the states family intervention industry can get at the husband's assets, and because fatherless children, when they grow up, vote left of children with fathers, vote for big daddy state.

Near as I can figure, the primary reason women don't report violent behavior by males is that they like it, or rather they like the relationship.  This, of course, is horribly non PC behavior by women, so the state wants to force the husband to leave the wife and children, even if the wife is none too keen on the idea.

Theoretically, politically correct women are not supposed to tolerate physical punishment by men or infidelity by men, but in fact, of course, they usually do, regardless of how liberated they theoretically are - indeed they tolerate it one hell of a lot better than they tolerate the weakness of a man who foolishly expects an equal relationship with a woman.  One should of course use an open hand and leave no marks.  A closed fist is grossly excessive, for women are fragile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FgMLROTqJ0

VAWA is venemously hostile to men, but it is also quite hostile to women whose behavior falls seriously short of the political correctness that most women supposedly believe in and theoretically practice.  It not only treats men as criminals, but women as children - children of the state.  (I am all in favor of treating women as children of their actual parents, because actual parents, unlike the state, usually have the best interests of their actual children at heart.)

If everyone is free to choose whatever sexual lifestyle they like, even if it is hurtful and self destructive, the state is wonderfully tolerant so long as they are doing stuff like sex changing a pre teen heterosexual to a surgically constructed simalcrum of a homosexual of the opposite sex. If, however, women choose a lifestyle that corresponds pretty much to what was normal one hundred years ago, as they very frequently do, the state is not so tolerant, and decides it stands in place of parents, and proceeds to exercise some very nineteenth century parental authority over women.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 04:56:54 pm by sam »

customdesigned on May 16, 2012, 08:13:19 pm
Near as I can figure, the primary reason women don't report violent behavior by males is that they like it, or rather they like the relationship.  This, of course, is horribly non PC behavior by women, so the state wants to force the husband to leave the wife and children, even if the wife is none too keen on the idea.
Near as I can figure, women don't report violent behaviour by spouses because they feel trapped economically, with no alternative means of support - especially if they have children.  A much better (and constitutional) way to address that problem was safe houses for battered women (and their children), although that still doesn't punish the aggressor. 

customdesigned on May 16, 2012, 08:28:16 pm
Quote
Now that the tables have turned, females don't seem to be the saints some of us imagined them to be.

Yeah, we're imagined to be either angels or whores.  Why's it so hard (even for women) to think of us as "people"?
Literature that takes hormones out of the equation helps.  For instance, in "The Secret World of Arrietta", the guy is 5' and the girl is 5", so the relationship is necessarily platonic.  In Catherine Jinks "Evil Genius" series, the girl is a brilliant mathematician with cerebral palsy, which again keeps the relationship platonic (I think - they *could* get married in the 3rd book, which I haven't got to yet, but I doubt it).

Another factor is that that women have a certain alien quality to men (and vice versa).  My cat is cute, very comforting while purring, and affectionate.  However, when I look into those golden eyes with slits for pupils, see her toy with a terrified mouse before killing it, or note the depth of the incision her claws make on the tree root, I realize just how alien she really is.   And the cliche is true: despite the mutual attraction, men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Killydd on May 16, 2012, 11:48:19 pm
Near as I can figure, the primary reason women don't report violent behavior by males is that they like it, or rather they like the relationship.  This, of course, is horribly non PC behavior by women, so the state wants to force the husband to leave the wife and children, even if the wife is none too keen on the idea.
Near as I can figure, women don't report violent behaviour by spouses because they feel trapped economically, with no alternative means of support - especially if they have children.  A much better (and constitutional) way to address that problem was safe houses for battered women (and their children), although that still doesn't punish the aggressor. 

Don't forget about also her feeling judged by anyone that knows about it, since there is still a portion of culture out there that does blame the victim.  Also, people have a great fear of the unknown, and leaving a person that you live with is a large step into the unknown.  Also, having lived with eachother, a great deal of blackmail material exists in any relationship that people don't want aired.

And of course, even the bits about birth control aren't just about whether insurance should cover it.  It's about whether a pharmacist can take a prescription, and refuse to fill it, refuse to transfer it, because that person has a religious conviction that another person should not be taking these drugs.  http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/15/kansas/

ex-Gooserider on May 17, 2012, 04:10:04 am
Actually I've seen studies that strongly suggest that domestic violence is MUTUAL - that in most couples where it's a problem, there is aggressive behaviour on both sides, both verbal and physical...  Biggest difference, largely attributed to differences in physical size / strength is that males tend to use fists and physical strength, where women tend to use weapons - the stereotypical cast iron frypan or rolling pin makes a decent "equalizer" :P

Long time since I lived in an apartment, but I had two times when I called the cops on neighbors having "domestic difficulties" - in both cases after I had heard noises that suggested the situation had gone from verbal abuse to physical (and in both noisy arguments were common)  In both cases, it was the WOMAN that got hauled off in cuffs by the cops.  In one case I later heard that she also trashed the inside of the cop car, and in the other the guy got hauled off in an ambulance to get his head wound seen to...

ex-Gooserider

mellyrn on May 17, 2012, 07:23:08 pm
"Man is willing to accept woman as an equal, as a man in skirts, as an angel, a devil, a babyface, an instrument, a bosom, a womb, a pair of legs, a servant, an encyclopedia, an ideal or an obscenity; the one thing he won't accept her as is a human being, a real human being of the feminine sex."  --- DH Lawrence

sam on May 17, 2012, 07:33:14 pm
Near as I can figure, women don't report violent behaviour by spouses because they feel trapped economically, with no alternative means of support

In a normal healthy marriage, the wife acts somewhat as if she was a child, and her husband was her father.  Women, like children, are apt to accept physical discipline if it is handed out in a calm controlled fashion for unacceptable misbehavior.  

Women need external discipline.

Show me a politically correct marriage, and I will show you a divorce.

Just as the politically correct, despite their supposed political correctness, spend a fortune to make sure their children will not go to school with blacks, spend a fortune to protect their children from the "diversity" that they are theoretically so much in favor of, their marriages are not politically correct either.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 07:43:40 pm by sam »

myrkul999 on May 17, 2012, 09:32:24 pm
Women need external discipline.

Sam, Kindly keep this sort of wackiness in the thread we've pretty much given over to it.

Andreas on May 18, 2012, 12:03:19 am
Sam is a broken record.

mellyrn on May 18, 2012, 08:58:33 am
I think sam may be unable to "chunk down" much below the level of phylum; he may, figuratively, be unable to see the trees for the forest.  He may know vaguely that there are "deciduous" trees and "evergreen" trees, but the idea that there might be meaningful differences between "oak" and "aspen", much less "red oak" vs "pin oak", may seem to him like pointless hairsplitting.  Distinguishing between individual trees of a single species may be completely beyond him. 

He can probably make distinctions well enough within his own self-defined "kind", white men, and probably if he, say, studied cars for a hobby, he could tell a '64 Mustang from a '65 (and would think it significant).  But beyond that, the world is for him coloring-book flat & simple.  He not only can't perceive more texture, he doesn't want it.  A flat world gives the illusion of being manageable.  But how empty.

customdesigned on May 18, 2012, 01:02:02 pm
He [sam] can probably make distinctions well enough within his own self-defined "kind", white men, ...
Hey! I'm a male of pale skin tone persuasion.

mellyrn on May 18, 2012, 02:16:41 pm
Quote
Hey! I'm a male of pale skin tone persuasion.

Some of my best friends are pale males!  ;)

I didn't mean that as a jibe against either category ("male", "pale"), but only that those are the two categories sam seems to consider as most important in placing himself in the world.  He's familiar enough with that subset that he can make distinctions that he is either unable or unwilling to make, or admit, in other subsets ("female", "dark").  He sees lots of different, unique, individual pale males, but apparently, to him, all females are just clones of one Ur-female.

sam on May 19, 2012, 03:11:53 am
He sees lots of different, unique, individual pale males, but apparently, to him, all females are just clones of one Ur-female.

VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) treats all males as completely different from all females, with zero overlap, and defines men as sinful and lacking in self control, whereas all women are innocent victims.

Evidently nothing sexist about that, but, hey, horribly sexist to say that women tend to lack self control and usually need external discipline.

Let us have a Violence Against Whites act that says that in any conflict between a white and a black, the black is always in the wrong.  Since there is nothing sexist in the Violence Against Women Act, cannot be anything racist in the Violence Against Whites Act.

The major reason and purpose of the Violence Against Women Act is to stop women from choosing to hang out with guys who use force on them, which implies that women are apt to choose to hang out with guys who use force on them, but when I say that women are apt to choose to hang out with guys that use force on them, I am being horribly sexist.

It is OK to believe that women tend to hang out with men who use force on them if you believe that this is because men and women are different and men are patriarchal pigs, but it is entirely unacceptable to believe that women tend to hang out with men who use force on them if you believe that this is because men and women are different and women are attracted to men who can master them.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 03:56:09 am by sam »

myrkul999 on May 19, 2012, 04:06:06 am
He sees lots of different, unique, individual pale males, but apparently, to him, all females are just clones of one Ur-female.

VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) treats all males as completely different from all females, with zero overlap, and defines men as sinful and lacking in self control, whereas all women are innocent victims.

Evidently nothing sexist about that, but, hey, horribly sexist to say that women tend to lack self control and usually need external discipline.

I didn't see anyone defending the VAWA act... simply noting the consequences of it's enactment. Your mindset is an example of how the act got passed in the first place. The idea that women somehow need more protection, because they are the "weaker" sex.

sam on May 19, 2012, 06:34:33 pm
VAWA (Violence Against Women Act) treats all males as completely different from all females, with zero overlap, and defines men as sinful and lacking in self control, whereas all women are innocent victims.

Evidently nothing sexist about that, but, hey, horribly sexist to say that women tend to lack self control and usually need external discipline.

I didn't see anyone defending the VAWA act.

I did not see anyone suggesting it was sexist, and I did see people rationalizing the inequalities that it imposes by arguing that men oppress women, that a voluntary association between a man and a women is apt to criminally unfair.

For example
Quote
Don't forget about also her feeling judged by anyone that knows about it, since there is still a portion of culture out there that does blame the victim.
Surely, if she is in voluntary association with the guy, she is not a victim, and does not need meddlesome do gooders rescuing her.

And:  
Quote
women don't report violent behaviour by spouses because they feel trapped economically, with no alternative means of support
If a guy is supporting a women, maybe she should do as she is told or get the hell out, and if she does not do as she is told, and does not want to get the hell out, she needs to be punished.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 06:38:16 pm by sam »