Killydd on May 16, 2012, 02:26:12 am
It's more complicated than that for what attracts people.  There are actually two radically opposed reproductive strategies at play for women.  In the first, a man that is successful at impressing women and spreading his genes far and wide by any means will have many children, and thus if some of them are yours and act this way, that spreads your genes further.  The opposing strategy is to ensure that your children survive in a quiet way and thus produce more children that actually reach breeding age.  Of course, the even better strategy turns out to be combining the two:  use the man from the first example to generate children, and the one from the second to settle with and raise the children, giving the higher chance of reaching adulthood, and the higher chance of breeding from the genes of the first.  Hey, that sounds suspiciously like the "irrational" behavior mentioned.  Breed with a man that can convince a lot of women to sleep with him, then settle down afterward with a nice guy.  Or settle with the nice guy and cheat on him with the sociopath. It just happens to be worse for the guy who can never be sure which kids actually carry his genes to propagate, so he wants to get his nice little harem of virgins that will only fuck him. 

mellyrn on May 16, 2012, 02:07:02 pm
Quote
It just happens to be worse for the guy who can never be sure which kids actually carry his genes to propagate

Yet people are not solitaries, and a neighbor near enough to "cheat" with may also be kin near enough to "count".  Ref. the Biblical story of Onan, commanded to give children to his brother's wife -- and killed by his god for "wickedness" when he did not.  It's true that the brother was dead at the time and incapable of doing this himself, yet raising your brother's children is almost as good as raising your own -- from the gene's perspective.

I 'spect that a lot of what we proudly consider "voluntary" action is not as much our own as we'd really like.  ;)

Killydd on May 17, 2012, 12:20:37 am
Yes, which is why some people REALLY hate "The Selfish Gene."  It's humbling to consider that we are just horribly complicated methods of propagating information to another generation.

quadibloc on May 17, 2012, 01:03:31 pm
Yes, which is why some people REALLY hate "The Selfish Gene."  It's humbling to consider that we are just horribly complicated methods of propagating information to another generation.
Just that and nothing more?

If that were the claim of Dawkins' book, it would simply be wrong, and one would not need to hate it, but simply refute it.

It is annoying to have to recognize that from the perspective of evolution we are just a way to propagate genes, but that's a statement of how evolution works, not a statement of the value, meaning, and ultimate purpose of human life.

That evolution accidentally produced creatures capable of true greatness and meaning... is just gravy. But gravy we should enjoy to the fullest.

Killydd on May 17, 2012, 01:31:26 pm
Yes, which is why some people REALLY hate "The Selfish Gene."  It's humbling to consider that we are just horribly complicated methods of propagating information to another generation.
Just that and nothing more?

If that were the claim of Dawkins' book, it would simply be wrong, and one would not need to hate it, but simply refute it.

It is annoying to have to recognize that from the perspective of evolution we are just a way to propagate genes, but that's a statement of how evolution works, not a statement of the value, meaning, and ultimate purpose of human life.

That evolution accidentally produced creatures capable of true greatness and meaning... is just gravy. But gravy we should enjoy to the fullest.
Well, maybe I should amend that to be the purpose of what we are.  We're like art hanging on a wall, someone asks "what's that for?" and we're forced to answer "It just hangs there."  I'm not saying that I don't enjoy parts of that gravy immensely, just that some people don't like not being the center and reason for the universe.  Well, unless there is some REALLY subtle creator out there that decided on a very complicated way of making us, and It didn't have some further creation along the line that is the intended result.  Or further up the line:  maybe we'd be an unintended result of the perfect dinosaur.

dough560 on May 26, 2012, 01:12:41 pm
My wife has repeatedly said they day I don't appreciate the view going by, is the day I get planted.  Consequently the day I touch something else is also the day I get planted.

wdg3rd on May 28, 2012, 08:31:40 pm
My wife has repeatedly said they day I don't appreciate the view going by, is the day I get planted.  Consequently the day I touch something else is also the day I get planted.

Ah, exclusive monogamy.  Never understood the concept and it has never been part of any marriage contract I signed. 
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

dough560 on May 29, 2012, 01:16:55 am
I've known a couple of triples over the years. Good friends.  Good people to have at your back.  The wife doesn't admit what their situation / arrangement is.