Bob G on February 12, 2012, 05:18:42 pm
. . . As for the guy "looking for Giles," I lay 10:1 odds he's going to pull the alarm. Real rookie mistake there, ladies.

Why would Nowra (I'm assuming the 'teens' are Neanne and Nowra since the rescuers are apparently now in extraction mode) blow the whistle on the operation after investing so much time and effort into setting it up, thus assuring the execution of his girlfriend?

I suspect Gerald may be the cat referred to in the One thing missing thread.

I guess we'll have to 'Tune in Tomorrow'.
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

Hans Rancke on February 13, 2012, 02:19:17 am
Umm... "Me Neanderthal, me strong"!?!

Shouldn't that be "Me Neanderthal with size and build pretty much like Homo sap. female, me pretty much as strong as Homo sap. female"?

An unenhanced Homo sap. female, presumably...

Perhaps she has bigger bones and bigger muscles, but if so, the artist definitely didn't manage to convey that to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't look big and strong. I'm saying she doesn't look surprisingly strong for her size.

Azure Priest on February 13, 2012, 07:26:09 am
Umm... "Me Neanderthal, me strong"!?!

Shouldn't that be "Me Neanderthal with size and build pretty much like Homo sap. female, me pretty much as strong as Homo sap. female"?

An unenhanced Homo sap. female, presumably...

Perhaps she has bigger bones and bigger muscles, but if so, the artist definitely didn't manage to convey that to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't look big and strong. I'm saying she doesn't look surprisingly strong for her size.

She's making a self-depreciating "joke" while making herself understood through force.

Perhaps I mis-posted, Nowra may not WILLINGLY pull the alarm, but the odds are strong that he'll TRIP it. Especially if he's going after a cat. Those animals get awfully skittish when they want to, and they OFTEN want to, when it's time to take a trip somewhere.

SandySandfort on February 13, 2012, 08:05:49 am
She's making a self-depreciating "joke" while making herself understood through force.

Bingo.

Bob G on February 13, 2012, 07:42:28 pm
Umm... "Me Neanderthal, me strong"!?!

Shouldn't that be "Me Neanderthal with size and build pretty much like Homo sap. female, me pretty much as strong as Homo sap. female"? . . . Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't look big and strong. I'm saying she doesn't look surprisingly strong for her size.

Chimpanzees trend smaller than humans yet due to metabolism and other factors are much stronger, pound-for-pound, than we are. I see no reason not to postulate that another closely-related species could have similar attributes.
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

Hans Rancke on February 14, 2012, 03:01:14 am
Umm... "Me Neanderthal, me strong"!?!

Shouldn't that be "Me Neanderthal with size and build pretty much like Homo sap. female, me pretty much as strong as Homo sap. female"? . . . Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't look big and strong. I'm saying she doesn't look surprisingly strong for her size.

Chimpanzees trend smaller than humans yet due to metabolism and other factors are much stronger, pound-for-pound, than we are. I see no reason not to postulate that another closely-related species could have similar attributes.

Those other factors wouldn't happen to be related to build, relative bone and muscle size, and the way the muscles are attached to the bones?

If the interlude with the grandfather has any relevance to the story, I'd say that in this universe Neanderthals are a sub-species of Homo sapiens. In any case, they're hominids, much closer related to us than the chimpanzees (*) . As evidenced by the similar build, bone and muscle size, and the way the muscles are attached to the bones.

(*) Recent studies have relegated chimpanzees from a genetic similarity of 98% to 94%.

And it's not just a matter of relative strength, it's also a matter of skill. One teenaged girl having the skill to defeat two trained bodyguards(**)?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

(**) Well, having the skill to twist the arm of one trained bodyguard -- I might believe that those two tough professionals would decide to go get her boyfriend out of sentimental sympathy for young lovers even if they would easily be able to overpower her.


« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 03:06:22 am by Hans Rancke »

Azure Priest on February 14, 2012, 08:36:42 am
Last time I looked at the anthro-morphology of primates, a Homo-neanderthalus had, statistically (going by bone structure), twice the muscle mass of a similarly mature Homo-sapiens while at the same time having 50-75% cranial capacity (space for brains in the skull).

We can only speculate about true neural capacity, and intelligence since there are no living or RECENTLY deceased members of Homo-Neanderthalus to examine.

We also can only speculate as to their behavior, and culture, although we DO have proof that they had a very primitive written language through cave painting. (Found in various archeological sites where neanderthals were the primary resident.)

The primary reason neanderthals are extinct is that their primary competitors, homo-sapiens, greatly outnumbered them, at least 10 to 1.

In this universe, Neanne is not necessarily a sub-species of homo-sapiens, even in the 20th century, horses have been used as "surrogate mothers" for zebras, and there are plans to use elephants for mammoths (by replacing the genetic material in an elephant egg with the genetic material from a mammoth fossil.)

Oh, and seems I was right, someone tripped the lights. Not good for a stealth mission.

SandySandfort on February 14, 2012, 09:01:53 am
Last time I looked at the anthro-morphology of primates, a Homo-neanderthalus had, statistically (going by bone structure), twice the muscle mass of a similarly mature Homo-sapiens while at the same time having 50-75% cranial capacity (space for brains in the skull).

Where did you get the 50-75% figure? When I was writing this story, and during a quick look now, the information I found said that the Neanderthals had a slightly larger cranial capacity than Homo Sapiens. Perhaps you are thinking of the recently discovered Hobbits in Borneo.

Larry G on February 14, 2012, 10:12:56 am
Uhhh,  who says that they are trained professionals?  They are fit and healthy yes, they have experience with martial arts yes, skill with weapons, check, but they come from a society of AMATEURS.  They VOLUNTEERED to put their lives at risk.

They are on this excursion not because of "orders", or hopes of "profit", but out of compassion and concern for another sentient being.  It can't get any simpler than that                                                                                                                                               
 

mellyrn on February 14, 2012, 02:20:08 pm
Quote
Uhhh,  who says that they are trained professionals?

Uhhh, how about . . . their employer, the richest guy in the solar system, who employs them as bodyguards

>Tobi's bodyguards introduced<

wdg3rd on February 14, 2012, 04:36:02 pm
Quote
Uhhh,  who says that they are trained professionals?

Uhhh, how about . . . their employer, the richest guy in the solar system, who employs them as bodyguards

>Tobi's bodyguards introduced<

Yup, I'd say they've probably had training.  Tobi doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd have somebody play pretend.  I have known individuals who'd be dumb enough to put an untrained girlfriend on the payroll as an excuse to have her around all the time as a business expense for taxes.  Tobi doesn't need the tax breaks and I doubt he needs to make excuses.

Their reaction to that painting tells me that the girls are professionals with no need to kiss Tobi's ass.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Hans Rancke on February 15, 2012, 02:47:01 am
Last time I looked at the anthro-morphology of primates, a Homo-neanderthalus had, statistically (going by bone structure), twice the muscle mass of a similarly mature Homo-sapiens while at the same time having 50-75% cranial capacity (space for brains in the skull).

Neanne isn't a statistic. She's someone who (to my eye, at least) is being rendered as a tall, strong girl with about the same muscle mass as a female human of the same height.

Quote
In this universe, Neanne is not necessarily a sub-species of homo-sapiens, even in the 20th century, horses have been used as "surrogate mothers" for zebras, and there are plans to use elephants for mammoths (by replacing the genetic material in an elephant egg with the genetic material from a mammoth fossil.)

I was going by the assumption that the kids we see in the interlude are descended from Neanne, but I've been thinking it over and I'm retracting my conclusion. There are other explanations how two different hominids can have grandkids, such as adoption and genetic tinkering.

Bob G on February 15, 2012, 04:57:47 am
Ookay - so not a cat, a lyrebird.

I sit corrected.

That's almost worse.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 04:59:28 am by Bob G »
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

Azure Priest on February 15, 2012, 09:19:30 am
Last time I looked at the anthro-morphology of primates, a Homo-neanderthalus had, statistically (going by bone structure), twice the muscle mass of a similarly mature Homo-sapiens while at the same time having 50-75% cranial capacity (space for brains in the skull).

Where did you get the 50-75% figure? When I was writing this story, and during a quick look now, the information I found said that the Neanderthals had a slightly larger cranial capacity than Homo Sapiens. Perhaps you are thinking of the recently discovered Hobbits in Borneo.

It was some time ago either on the Discovery channel, or a copy of National Geographic magazine. I don't remember the exact date, but it was sometime in the '90s.

As for Neanne, have to agree with her sentiments here. True that the bird is a living creature, but Nowra could get them all killed going after it. Birds like being moved even less than cats do.

sam on February 16, 2012, 04:04:39 pm
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she doesn't look big and strong. I'm saying she doesn't look surprisingly strong for her size.

Sapiens has slimmer and longer arms legs and bodies.  Neanderthals were a lot burlier than sapiens, and ancient sapiens a lot burlier than modern sapiens.  A female neanderthal should look like a  male sapiens body builder who has breasts because of side effects from his steroids.

Neanderthals made a living by attacking wild cattle up close and personal, males as well as females, whereas sapiens used ranged weapons, and only sapiens males hunted large animals, while sapiens females stuck to gathering.  Chances are that when sapiens and neandethrals fought, sapiens had to use superior weaponry, their markedly superior running speed, and their superior social organization to keep them at range, because one on one close up, a sapiens fighting a neanderthal would be like a sapiens female fighting a sapiens male.

We know sapiens could easily outrun neanderthal from their skeletal structure.  We know they had better ranged weaponry than neanderthal from their artifacts, and we know they had superior social organization, because they had materials that indicate trade over very great distances.  We also know that neanderthals wrestled wild bulls for a living from their characteristic injuries, the food remnants in their garbage heaps, and their style of weapons.

A species where the females wrestle wild bulls, is a species where a female can rip a sapiens male apart with her bare hands.

On the other hand, of course, a female character who could rip a male sapiens apart with her bare hands is unlikely to appeal to readers.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 08:30:54 pm by sam »

 

anything