knoodelhed on January 10, 2012, 01:37:43 am
 :o Tobi not being (AFAICT) an agent of a state/employer subject to coercion, I can only think that he had this done to protect some obscenely sensitive information on behalf of close friends whose welfare and honour he values more than he does his own life. What say you?

Bob G on January 10, 2012, 05:43:28 am
:o Tobi not being (AFAICT) an agent of a state/employer subject to coercion, I can only think that he had this done to protect some obscenely sensitive information on behalf of close friends whose welfare and honour he values more than he does his own life. What say you?

That, or knowing that power tends to corrupt, and, being the 'richest man in the solar system', he has great power, he's given people in whom he puts great trust an ultimate veto power over his actions.
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

LeoAutodidact on January 10, 2012, 06:18:08 am
Rather like the Kryptonite that Batman carrys around all the time "just in case" Superman gets "out of hand."  As I recall Kal-El gave it to him for just that reason, Batman being one of the only other people he knew of who was as devoted to justice as he was (Although in a COMPLETELY different way.)

macharuadh on January 10, 2012, 05:34:07 pm
Ok, here's my guess - it's something along the lines of that old joke whose punchline is "Fuck your canoe!!!"  Brainbomb = fork.

Azure Priest on January 11, 2012, 08:18:45 am
Noble concept, crappy dumb-ass implementation.

macsnafu on January 11, 2012, 08:57:27 am
Yeah, I don't especially like this.  Sure, he's rich, and sure he has a lot of people working under him, but the idea that wealth is power really bothers me.  If you earned your wealth in a just manner, as I assume he did, then you earned it by providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for.  Now, there's something to be said for wisely managing one's money, but generally, if he were to stop providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for, then he would stop making money, and would start hemorrhaging money instead.
So what power does he really have?  The power to provide what other people want and are willing to pay for.  What can he really do with his money?  He can only buy what other people are willing to sell.   That's power?
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

SandySandfort on January 11, 2012, 10:48:40 am
Wealth, itself, is neutral. But it can be misused for evil. Note what governments do with their stolen money--killer drones, nuclear weapons and worse. Let's say Tobi flew off in a rage and injured or even killed an employee (they're all employees on TLP). What practical recourse does the victim, or next of kin, have? Everyone is on TLP at Tobi's pleasure. There is no way to leave without his permission and active assistance of Tobi. TLP's very existence and location are deeply guarded secrets. He has lots of security people to protect him. He can simply refuse arbitration. There is no speaker for the dead. He has lots of money to buy silence.

Personally, I think he would likely come to justice... eventually. However, that still leaves him plenty of time to do all sorts of evil things. Today, Tobi is an extremely ethical man, but he know that even he could become corrupt or, through some accident of genetics or circumstances, he could become insane. He wants to protect against that. He does not have a death wish, but he knows that sometimes it is time to go. How many of you have had a relative tell you, or you them, "I don't want to kept alive, hooked to machines in a vegetative coma. Promise me you will pull the plug if that ever happens."

Monsters from the id, the mindless savage... Have we learned nothing from Forbidden Planet?

Well, Tobi does not want to live as a monster. He has given some trusted people the ability to pull his plug. Seems to me, like an honorable precaution to take.

In a future arc, we will explore when someone wants to be a monster and what can be done about it. Right now, though, we are talking about Tobi and his ethical decision. Some of you might think such a drastic step is unnecessary and/or stupid. However, no one can fault Tobi for recognizing a credible danger and choosing to doing something to eliminate it. YMMV

Yeah, I don't especially like this.  Sure, he's rich, and sure he has a lot of people working under him, but the idea that wealth is power really bothers me.  If you earned your wealth in a just manner, as I assume he did, then you earned it by providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for.  Now, there's something to be said for wisely managing one's money, but generally, if he were to stop providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for, then he would stop making money, and would start hemorrhaging money instead.
So what power does he really have?  The power to provide what other people want and are willing to pay for.  What can he really do with his money?  He can only buy what other people are willing to sell.   That's power?

Bob G on January 11, 2012, 08:29:08 pm
Yeah, I don't especially like this.  Sure, he's rich, and sure he has a lot of people working under him, but the idea that wealth is power really bothers me.  If you earned your wealth in a just manner, as I assume he did, then you earned it by providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for.  Now, there's something to be said for wisely managing one's money, but generally, if he were to stop providing what other people wanted and were willing to pay for, then he would stop making money, and would start hemorrhaging money instead.
So what power does he really have?  The power to provide what other people want and are willing to pay for.  What can he really do with his money?  He can only buy what other people are willing to sell.   That's power?

I'm sorry you don't like it. It doesn't change the fact - wealth *is* power. Granted, it is not what too many people view as the only type of power available - force. In an AnCap environment where there are no levers of government to be corrupted there is much less of a chance that Tobi could make people bend to his will. Still, virtually unlimited wealth can give a person many tools with which heshe can persuade people to do what heshe wants them to do.
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

Oldhobo on January 11, 2012, 10:20:32 pm
it's a noble gesture.  No one's that noble in real life except, maybe (not being funny) Christ himself.  Lay on, MacDuff.
-O

Bob G on January 13, 2012, 03:09:11 am
In a future arc, we will explore when someone wants to be a monster and what can be done about it.

"Bomber' Harris and the Black Mamba were fairly nasty individuals. If you're cooking up someone worse than those two, it could be an 'interesting time'.

(Edit) Eeeh . . . make that 'Butcher' Harris. I sit corrected.   :-[
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 08:10:26 pm by Bob G »
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

SandySandfort on January 13, 2012, 06:43:42 am
In a future arc, we will explore when someone wants to be a monster and what can be done about it.

"Bomber' Harris and the Black Mamba were fairly nasty individuals. If you're cooking up someone worse than those two, it could be an 'interesting time'.

Evil comes in many forms. The future arc will have monsters far more abhorrent--at least from my point of view--than either Butcher Harris or the Black Mamba.

Kudos, by the way, to Bob G, for nailing the rationale behind Tobi's "Public Exploder" failsafe.

Azure Priest on January 13, 2012, 11:25:24 am
Just one last word. Sure, Toby created "tangle net" and knows what it does, but does he really?

"A format where EVERYONE, including criminals, patriots and even terrorists can act..."

The people who created ARPANET, and thought it was sufficient to convey information are still at a loss over the decades at how people, well-meaning or otherwise still find new and interesting ways to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

I know I wouldn't sleep well at night if someone could throw a monkey wrench that would make my head explode, and yes Tobi DOES have people after him.

wdg3rd on January 14, 2012, 12:27:48 am
I know I wouldn't sleep well at night if someone could throw a monkey wrench that would make my head explode, and yes Tobi DOES have people after him.

And all they have to do is kidnap four out of seven people if they can figure out who they need.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Bob G on January 14, 2012, 04:48:21 am
I know I wouldn't sleep well at night if someone could throw a monkey wrench that would make my head explode, and yes Tobi DOES have people after him.

And all they have to do is kidnap four out of seven people if they can figure out who they need.


IF they even find out Tobi has a brain bomb (I doubt he broadcasts that tidbit to all and sundry) AND they figure out who have triggers (we know Mac and Nisa are two of them) AND can get hold of them AND can convince/coerce them to activate their triggers (I doubt it's really as simple as 'pushing a button'), THEN Tobi will be in deep kimchee.
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

SandySandfort on January 14, 2012, 06:57:32 am
And all they have to do is kidnap four out of seven people if they can figure out who they need.

If... but who are the other five, if indeed, that is the correct number?

Also, what fail-safes do the seven Public Exploders have in place to prevent kidnap (and torture)?

Let's go at this from the opposite angle. If you were Tobi, and you decided to implement the "Final Solution," what would you set up in the way of fail-safes?

 

anything