Apollo-Soyuz on July 14, 2011, 09:12:58 pm
This is the second time the storyline has shown people - who live on a water-rich world with negotiable gravity - leave their home and make a profit in the trade of frozen water-ice asteroids

How valuable could that water be? Wouldn't a simple launcher on Ceres be able to impart most of the velocity needed to deliver a chunk of water anywhere in the belt?

The only thing I can think of is that it being a "dead" comet, it  would most likely have frozen methane ice also, which I can see being rare in the belt. Methane could be used to form plastics and numerous other chemicals.

Any other advantages over the "free for the pumping" Ceres oceans that I'm missing?

quadibloc on July 14, 2011, 10:43:22 pm
Any other advantages over the "free for the pumping" Ceres oceans that I'm missing?
Well, there is plenty of oil in Texas and Alaska.

Yet, the United States still buys oil from Sa'udi Arabia and Canada.

So, just because Ceres has water doesn't mean that they would prefer to sell the supplies they need for their own future to others who would like to buy water - in preference to extra water they can find elsewhere.

Apollo-Soyuz on July 15, 2011, 12:37:35 am

Yet, the United States still buys oil from Sa'udi Arabia and Canada.

So, just because Ceres has water doesn't mean that they would prefer to sell the supplies they need for their own future to others who would like to buy water - in preference to extra water they can find elsewhere.

Except there's a national government in the US that either owns all the mineral rights or they're owned by the states or parties that purchased them.

Somehow I missed ;-) the global central Ceres water rights board.

Also, it's probably more accurate to say Ceres is water, rather than has water.

Getting thirsty on the Flying Spaghetti Monster and can't find anyone to deliver? There's nothing stopping you from flying over and carving yourself a chunk of water ice off any random non-seasteaded bit of the surface on Ceres, as far as I can tell. 

SandySandfort on July 15, 2011, 08:32:31 am

Yet, the United States still buys oil from Sa'udi Arabia and Canada.

So, just because Ceres has water doesn't mean that they would prefer to sell the supplies they need for their own future to others who would like to buy water - in preference to extra water they can find elsewhere.

Delta-V plus extraction costs.

Except there's a national government in the US that either owns all the mineral rights or they're owned by the states or parties that purchased them.

Somehow I missed ;-) the global central Ceres water rights board.

Also, it's probably more accurate to say Ceres is water, rather than has water.

Getting thirsty on the Flying Spaghetti Monster and can't find anyone to deliver? There's nothing stopping you from flying over and carving yourself a chunk of water ice off any random non-seasteaded bit of the surface on Ceres, as far as I can tell. 

Somehow I didn't get my response posted. It was:

"Cost of extraction and delta-V."

« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 07:42:22 pm by SandySandfort »

Larry G on July 15, 2011, 02:26:57 pm
I will try a whack at this question.
Although Ceres has a large quantity of water, it is NOT unlimited, and distances between asteroids are HUGE. It makes much more sense to seek out water sources closer to your hard rock mining operation than take up to a year or more making the round trip just to pay Ceres prices for water.
I would think that water mining would become a viable entry level activity for a 'Mom and Pop' operation just getting started in the belt, what with not only water being extracted, but all the volatile chemicals that are likely trapped in the ice of a dead comet or other water rich chunk of rock.
Say a family group arrives on Ceres, Mom, Dad, Preteen Daughter, Dad's Brother, his Wife and Pretween Son.  Unless they come with an appreciable stock of trade-able metals and goods, their prospects don't look good, do they?
They are ambitious however.
Dad and Mom land jobs on the docking bays manhandling maglev containers, while taking classes to get their tug pilot certificates from one of the bonded training centers,  then take jobs as Tug Jockeys .
Uncle is a stay at home parent that does accounting over the tanglenet, while taking classes in astronavigation.  Aunt takes classes in repair and building spaceships (small) and gets a job at one of the shipyards.
After about 3-5 years, Mom has her Ship's Master Certificate (Tug) in hand, Dad is up for certification as a Master Pilot, and Aunt has an Engineer's Certification , so the family turns its attention to the next step: Ice Mining.
They have saved up enough to Lease To Own a small tug with attached ice mining and refining platform for one year.  They need to stock a year and half worth of consumables, fuel for a year long journey, power module for the platform's initial month of operation, by that time fuel wont be a problem, 3-5 hauling bladders, and a medium sized nano fabricator for replacement parts and organics.  Also FULL Insurance on EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY!
So the family goes to Tony's Tavern, Space Tug Rental, and Loan.
Uncle handles the negations, and the family agrees to a 5 year loan on the supplies and insurance premium.
Tony will sell shares in the loan to investors to lessen his finical burden in case of default, naturally.
So the family sets out to maybe not strike it rich, but willing to give it a try.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 10:31:26 pm by Larry G »

dough560 on July 16, 2011, 05:43:33 am
Larry G, I like.  A simple, thought out solution to a new beginning.  Notably, one that doesn't rely on a government.

Larry G on July 16, 2011, 07:22:36 am
Thanks Dough, and I would like to acknowledge that the inspiration for this bit of story telling is RAH's novel, "The Rolling Stones".

dough560 on July 18, 2011, 05:48:27 am
A lot of people here were raised on the "Classics".  You're in good company.

 

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