Apollo-Soyuz on June 09, 2011, 06:03:41 am
google sez: that the stars make the permission of

but somehow I think that fails the original intent.

Apollo-Soyuz on June 09, 2011, 06:09:02 am
"liberty and the stars"?
"The stars are the limit"?


paddyfool on June 09, 2011, 06:53:52 am
Licentia: "being free"; "being unrestrained"
Quod: Either Because, or Which.
Astrum: A star (nominative singular)

Free because of a star?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 07:01:00 am by paddyfool »

SandySandfort on June 09, 2011, 10:49:45 am
Licentia: "being free"; "being unrestrained"
Quod: Either Because, or Which.
Astrum: A star (nominative singular)

Free because of a star?

I have no idea. The motto was not in the original story I wrote and I did not see the finished logo before publication. I have made an inquiry. I will let you know what I find out.

paddyfool on June 09, 2011, 11:33:57 am
"Freed by the stars" might be the intent, but that would be "Licentia per astra".  Or "libertas per stella", alternatively.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 11:36:14 am by paddyfool »

Apollo-Soyuz on June 09, 2011, 12:23:55 pm
licentia
   1. noun
         1. LICENSE
         2. LICENCE
         3. LICENTIOUSNESS
         4. AUTHORITY
         5. CHARTER
         6. AUTHORISATION
         7. WARRANT
         8. AUTHORIZATION
         9. LEAVE
        10. PERMISSION
        11. UNCONSTRAINT
        12. ANARCHY
        13. LAWLESSNESS
        14. LIBERTY
        15. DISSOLUTENESS
        16. PERMIT
        17. RIGHT
        18. FREEDOM
        19. FAMILIARITY
        20. EXCESS
        21. EASE
        22. RATIFICATION


quod
   1. adverb
         1. SO
         2. WHY
   2. conjunction
         1. BECAUSE
         2. AND
         3. BUT
         4. SINCE
         5. NOW
         6. ALTHOUGH
         7. WHEREAS
         8. NOW THAT
         9. AS FAR AS
        10. POINT THAT
        11. SINCE THAT
        12. FACT THAT

astrum
   1. noun
         1. CONSTELLATION
         2. STAR
         3. IMMORTALITY
         4. GLORY
         5. HEAVEN

That was google again, except one word at a time. Having flunked Latin in Jr. High, I offer you the cafeteria plan of bad translation  ;-)

Corydon on June 09, 2011, 01:21:55 pm
I assume that what's meant was "freedom because of the stars."  Unfortunately, it's bad Latin:

licentia is freedom, but freedom from restraints.  That includes, often, moral and ethical restraints, so licentia is usually a bad thing.  Think "license", in its slightly archaic sense.  A better word for the Scouts would be libertas.

quod is because, but you can't have a subordinating conjunction without a subordinate clause in Latin any more than you can in English.

astrum is a perfectly cromulent word for "star", but it should be plural.  And I like stella (also "star") better, as the Romans also used it to describe planets- the Scouts are an intra-solar system organization, so it makes a little more sense.  And it just sounds nicer to my ears than astrum- but horses for courses.

I'd suggest as a Scout motto libertas propter stellas (freedom because of the stars), or libertas inter stellas (freedom among the stars).  Or even libertas stellarum (freedom of the stars), which has the Latin virtue of brevity.

ZeissIkon on June 09, 2011, 03:39:07 pm
Based on the list of translations from Apollo-Soyuz, I think "Freedom, therefore glory" is probably the most apt translation of "Licentia quod astrum."  As noted above, singular astrum seems to refer to a single object (or concept), rather than a gathering.

Equally possible, of course, is that the artist drew the motto with nice Latin words without any idea what they meant (though that seems less likely in this comic than in some).

Corydon on June 09, 2011, 04:23:54 pm
Based on the list of translations from Apollo-Soyuz, I think "Freedom, therefore glory" is probably the most apt translation of "Licentia quod astrum."  As noted above, singular astrum seems to refer to a single object (or concept), rather than a gathering.

Sure, except that quod doesn't mean "therefore".  And astrum doesn't mean "glory". Stars are a metaphor for glory in Latin as in English-- a "movie star" or a phrase like ad astra per aspera ("to the stars through difficulties")-- but the word "star" isn't a synonym for glory, in either language.

Quote
Equally possible, of course, is that the artist drew the motto with nice Latin words without any idea what they meant (though that seems less likely in this comic than in some).

That's the most likely explanation.  There's a lot of bad pseudo-Latin out there.  But I was trying to be nice... ;)

Scott on June 09, 2011, 11:07:08 pm
The explanation was that I was working at 1am, on a deadline to get this strip done, and I used a crappy free Internet translation website.

But thanks to Corydon, we have a much better translation -- Libertas Stellarum. It's up on the server now.

Apollo-Soyuz on June 09, 2011, 11:13:14 pm
That's the most likely explanation.  There's a lot of bad pseudo-Latin out there.  But I was trying to be nice... ;)

It's actually archaic Italian, but Maryland's motto,  ''Fatti maschi, parole femine'' has been translated variously as "speak softly and carry a big stick", all the way to "many people think the Maryland slogan is sexist", (which I attribute to my third grade elementary school teacher).

quadibloc on June 10, 2011, 02:15:09 pm
The first thing I would try to do is figure out how "quod" works gramatically.

Quod erat demonstratum.

Thus this is demonstrated.

Definitely doesn't work. Find a Latin phrase that has an analogous sense.

Ad astra per aspera.

To the stars through desire.

(which Heinlein, in one story, famously corrected to ad astra per ardua: to the stars through hard work)

Ah. So perhaps we want - if the two -a suffixes mean both those words are in the same case -

Ad liberta per astra

or something like that. Now, find out which declensions "astra" and "libertas" are in, and what cases "Ad" and "per" actually require. This would require an actual Latin grammar. Fortunately, Google books will help there, since people have been learning Latin in schools for a long time, and thus many of them are in the public domain.

Libertas, f. 3
Aster, m. 2

Apparently it would be

Ad libertas per astra

where both words are in the nominative case, as best I can tell from consulting one dictionary.

A Google search allowed me to find the motto of the West Park Secondary School: Libertas per diligentiam; Freedom through effort.

So "Libertas per astra" seems like it would do. Or "Libertas per stellarum", given these other possibilities:

Libertas per cultum
Freedom through education
Idler Academy motto

Libertas per scientiam
Freedom through knowledge
Benjamin Franklin American University

Libertas per veritatem
Freedom through truth
Lehigh University

From here, there does seem to be a good reason for preferring "stellarum" to "astra"; "astra" is used 'poetically, or in more elevated prose', which makes sense when it is the goal, but not when it is the means.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 02:52:25 pm by quadibloc »

Corydon on June 11, 2011, 07:03:57 am
But thanks to Corydon, we have a much better translation -- Libertas Stellarum. It's up on the server now.

Woohoo!  Happy to help.

Corydon on June 11, 2011, 07:10:29 am
Those are good guesses, quadibloc!

The first thing I would try to do is figure out how "quod" works gramatically.

Quod erat demonstratum.

Thus this is demonstrated.

Definitely doesn't work.

No, because quod can be two different words, that happen to be spelled the same.  Quod can be a conjunction ("because") or a form of the relative pronoun ("that").  QED is the latter word.

Quote
Apparently it would be

Ad libertas per astra

where both words are in the nominative case, as best I can tell from consulting one dictionary.

Close! ... but no merit badge.  Ad takes the accusative case, so you'd want ad libertatem per astra.

Quote
So "Libertas per astra" seems like it would do. Or "Libertas per stellarum"

Per also takes the accusative.  So libertas per astra is fine, but you'd want libertas per stellas.

undituate on July 14, 2011, 03:59:20 pm
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