mellyrn on May 25, 2011, 09:17:10 am
OK, today's page (page 710) has just opened a unique can of worms for me regarding this business of becoming young again.

Suppose in one of your youthful phases, you procreated and then left (maybe because of being a scumbag, or maybe because of not knowing about it, whatever), and then 50 years later, rejuv'd again, you hook up with your own progeny. . . .

I know Heinlein's To Sail Beyond the Sunset (my nomination for "worst book ever published") is full of parent-child romps, and it's no less icky for that.

Or, there you are a few years short of going in for rejuv, and you're saying "Yes, ma'am" to some hot teen babe because she's your grandma.

Rejuv would totally drive some new social patterns!

Tucci78 on May 25, 2011, 12:27:50 pm
Suppose in one of your youthful phases, you procreated and then left (maybe because of being a scumbag, or maybe because of not knowing about it, whatever), and then 50 years later, rejuv'd again, you hook up with your own progeny. . . .

Most human sexual activity is non-reproductive, so if the coitus is not part of the bonding rituals by which matrimony is engaged (and therefore zygotes are to be kindled), who gives a damn?

"Oh, grandmother, what great big...er, eyes...you have!"
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

SandySandfort on May 25, 2011, 01:48:08 pm
OK, today's page (page 710) has just opened a unique can of worms for me regarding this business of becoming young again.

Suppose in one of your youthful phases, you procreated and then left (maybe because of being a scumbag, or maybe because of not knowing about it, whatever), and then 50 years later, rejuv'd again, you hook up with your own progeny. . . .
...
Rejuv would totally drive some new social patterns!

The incest taboo is biological as well as cultural. Pheromones that are too similar to your own are a turn-off. That is where much of the "icky" response comes from. Odds are very strong you will not find close relatives sexually attractive. So the "problem" is largely self-limiting.

mellyrn on May 25, 2011, 03:03:22 pm
Quote
So the "problem" is largely self-limiting.

Oh, yes, thanks for the reminder.  Doesn't help with calling the cute teen "Grandma", though; that'll change.

So I've got another one:  there you are, physically 24 but with 72 years' life experience.  Now you get to sort through all the first-timer 24-year-olds to find someone who isn't a giddy child. 

Personals:
SF(24 x 3) seeks SM(24 x 3)+ for fun & companionship.  Submit vid of ice transporter.

sam on May 25, 2011, 05:09:34 pm
Suppose in one of your youthful phases, you procreated and then left (maybe because of being a scumbag, or maybe because of not knowing about it, whatever), and then 50 years later, rejuv'd again, you hook up with your own progeny. . .

This assumes you still reproducing the old fashioned way, rather than taking a copy of your own genes, upgrading them with genes downloaded from the internet, and cooking up a not-quite-clone in the wombulator-2000.

I am inclined to think that for humans that reproduce in the old fashioned way, the old fashioned sexual order is natural, and an anarchic society that is as sexually progressive as that which Sandy depicts, could only exist if we stopped reproducing sexually.  As I have argued elsewhere, an anarchic society that reproduces sexually is likely to have sexual mores that are at most as progressive as saga period Iceland, and quite possibly as conservative as early republican Rome. 

If, however, people generaly use the Wobulator 2000, or the later and larger model the Wombulator X7, which can produce more physically mature people, It is highly probable that a lot of guys, would produce a near clone of themselves, with the Y chromosome removed, replaced by an X chromsome of a hot chick downloaded from the internet, replace any known damaging recesive genes, set the wombulator to make to near sexual maturity, popping out an offspring with mental age zero, biological age reproductive or close to it, and ...

SandySandfort on May 25, 2011, 05:29:51 pm
So I've got another one:  there you are, physically 24 but with 72 years' life experience.  Now you get to sort through all the first-timer 24-year-olds to find someone who isn't a giddy child.

30 seconds to 5 minutes of conversation. The 5 minutes is a way outside time. Most giddy children would reveal themselves in under a minute.

happycrow on May 25, 2011, 06:37:20 pm
What about us giddy adults?

ZeissIkon on May 25, 2011, 06:50:14 pm
What about us giddy adults?

Isn't that more or less what SM (24x3) is likely to be looking (and be, come to that)?

Bob G on May 26, 2011, 05:51:33 am
It is highly probable that a lot of guys, would produce a near clone of themselves, with the Y chromosome removed, replaced by an X chromsome of a hot chick downloaded from the internet, replace any known damaging recesive genes, set the wombulator to make to near sexual maturity, popping out an offspring with mental age zero, biological age reproductive or close to it, and ...

Gives a whole new spin to the phrase, "Go (copulate) yourself!"
Whatsoever, for any cause, seeketh to take or give
  Power above or beyond the Laws, suffer it not to live.
Holy State, or Holy King, or Holy People's Will.
  Have no truck with the senseless thing, order the guns and kill.

The penultimate stanza of Rudyard Kipling's MacDonough's Song

mellyrn on May 26, 2011, 07:13:59 am
Quote
30 seconds to 5 minutes of conversation. The 5 minutes is a way outside time. Most giddy children would reveal themselves in under a minute.

Spoilsport. 

Quote
Most human sexual activity is non-reproductive [...] who gives a damn?

I ain't thinking about the progeny of me and my grandson.  I just don't want to be doing my freakin' grandson.

Now, growing up in a society where, when you're a taut, trim, healthy 50-year-old and your 80-year-old mom goes to rejuv and comes back looking younger than your youngest kid, hey, it's just life.  We're so adaptable.  But this is evidently the early stages yet.  I'm guessing that this is at most Babbette and Reggie's second go (though it would imply a fully-developed rejuv process as early as 2040).  Bert & Ernie probably have had one, so the weirdity for the first generation to be 50 and see their moms & dads turning into twentysomethings has already happened.  Still, this is at most the second time the kids -- who spent their actual childhoods assuming parents to be "older" -- have encountered this.  And it's the first time I have!  :)

I'd be very happy to see my own mom rejuv'd.  And it would still be really damned weird.  I'd be happy for my dad -- but, on the whole, I'd probably want less to do with him.  No reason for it; this isn't at all a rational effect.  I wonder if it would wear off.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 07:17:50 am by mellyrn »

SandySandfort on May 26, 2011, 08:11:13 am
It is highly probable that a lot of guys, would produce a near clone of themselves, with the Y chromosome removed, replaced by an X chromsome of a hot chick downloaded from the internet, replace any known damaging recesive genes, set the wombulator to make to near sexual maturity, popping out an offspring with mental age zero, biological age reproductive or close to it, and ...

Gives a whole new spin to the phrase, "Go (copulate) yourself!"

Dumb idea. Those guys would run into the pheromone rejection issue, in spades. The icky factor would be nearly twice (four times?) as bad as doing your sister. (I withdraw the judgment in sam's case, if he actually enjoys doing his sister.)  :o

J Thomas on May 26, 2011, 08:53:42 am
It is highly probable that a lot of guys, would produce a near clone of themselves, with the Y chromosome removed, replaced by an X chromsome of a hot chick downloaded from the internet, replace any known damaging recesive genes, set the wombulator to make to near sexual maturity, popping out an offspring with mental age zero, biological age reproductive or close to it, and ...

Gives a whole new spin to the phrase, "Go (copulate) yourself!"

Dumb idea. Those guys would run into the pheromone rejection issue, in spades. The icky factor would be nearly twice (four times?) as bad as doing your sister. (I withdraw the judgment in sam's case, if he actually enjoys doing his sister.)  :o

Well, but Sam is postulating a method to quickly create a clone with a second X chromosome, that is physically adult but has no experience whatsoever -- basicly a baby in an adult body.

If the pheromone rejection issue is mostly on the female side (and that's the side that the experiments I've heard of indicated), then likely a lot of the guys who'd come up with the idea wouldn't care if she objected. And there's no need to ever expose her to another male's smells, to get a baseline to compare against.

J Thomas on May 26, 2011, 09:12:33 am
It is highly probable that a lot of guys, would produce a near clone of themselves, with the Y chromosome removed, replaced by an X chromsome of a hot chick downloaded from the internet, replace any known damaging recesive genes, set the wombulator to make to near sexual maturity, popping out an offspring with mental age zero, biological age reproductive or close to it, and ...

Gives a whole new spin to the phrase, "Go (copulate) yourself!"

Probably men who want such a clone would not want to get it pregnant. A long time ago statistical studies indicated that the average frenchman probably had around six recessive lethal genes or equivalent, but gave no indication which lethal recessives those were. Have a child with your clone and you can advance the frontiers of science by helping discover and catalog new deleterious genes.

But it would be very easy to avoid that -- collect the X chromosome from a woman with Turner's Syndrome. The genetics of Turner's syndrome is quite variable. They could choose one that has minimal heart problems etc, but is 100% infertile and they'd probably want to choose a version that results in low intelligence too.

She should appear sexually mature in every way, except infertile and no periods.

A man who got bored with his clone could probably sell her on the street pretty easy,

spudit on May 26, 2011, 09:48:46 am
Sell your clone? What a lovely new can of worms that opens.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 10:50:13 am by spudit »
Vote Early and Vote Often
for EFT
have you voted today?

SandySandfort on May 26, 2011, 11:25:17 am
Well, but Sam is postulating a method to quickly create a clone with a second X chromosome, that is physically adult but has no experience whatsoever -- basicly a baby in an adult body.

If the pheromone rejection issue is mostly on the female side (and that's the side that the experiments I've heard of indicated), then likely a lot of the guys who'd come up with the idea wouldn't care if she objected.

First, men do perceive pheromones. That has been shown with homosexual men who are more attracted to men with very different HLA. So your distaff clone would not be pheromone-attractive to you. Second, if she were repelled by you and did object, you would be violating the ZAP if you forced yourself on her. In any case, do you really want to rape your twin sister?

And there's no need to ever expose her to another male's smells, to get a baseline to compare against.

That's not the way it works. Either the HLA is similar or it is not (or somewhere in between). There is no "baseline." "Women don't compare a man's pheromones to other men's. They compare a man's pheromones to her own. So icky is still icky.


 

anything