Aardvark on April 16, 2011, 08:48:29 am
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"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -- George Orwell

A huge portion of my countrymen are living proof of this.

Eric Blair was making something of a generalization, but overall, the principle is historically true enough. The corollary is also true: sometimes a man can see nothing but evil in a nation, no matter what the evidence. At the core, it's a tribal thing, and a tribe can be a nation, a race, an ideology, or a religion. It can take some courage to stand back and be objective about the group one identifies with.

sam on April 16, 2011, 09:41:25 am
Eric Blair was making something of a generalization, but overall, the principle is historically true enough. The corollary is also true: sometimes a man can see nothing but evil in a nation, no matter what the evidence. At the core, it's a tribal thing, and a tribe can be a nation, a race, an ideology, or a religion. It can take some courage to stand back and be objective about the group one identifies with.

It follows then that those who rule America do not identify with it.

GlennWatson on April 16, 2011, 10:27:01 am
It can take some courage to stand back and be objective about the group one identifies with.

Its is the hardest thing in the world.

SandySandfort on April 16, 2011, 10:50:11 am
Okay. That narrows it down a good bit. It's nice to get a feel for the U.W. Dictatorships come in many flavors.

The word "dictatorship" covers a lot of territory. It may be helpful to think of the UW as US rhetoric united European social democracy. Like the old Soviet Union, it is a rag-tag conglomeration of competing power blocs. And like the USSR, it is hanging on by the skin of its teeth. It could collapse at any moment. Today's US is a fair enough analog--especially for the immanent financial collapse and subsequent social unrest (and potential collapse). It is a dying empire, which is a good thing, but billions of innocent people will suffer in its death throes.

Corydon on April 16, 2011, 11:28:29 am
Today's US is a fair enough analog--especially for the immanent financial collapse and subsequent social unrest (and potential collapse).

I think you mean imminent here.  The two words are often confused, but mean quite different things.

J Thomas on April 16, 2011, 11:45:55 am
Today's US is a fair enough analog--especially for the immanent financial collapse and subsequent social unrest (and potential collapse).

I think you mean imminent here.  The two words are often confused, but mean quite different things.

And yet the word he used fits in a rather poetical way.

As does eminent.

GlennWatson on April 16, 2011, 11:53:26 am
Today's US is a fair enough analog--especially for the immanent financial collapse and subsequent social unrest (and potential collapse).

I think you mean imminent here.  The two words are often confused, but mean quite different things.


I'm sure it was a typographical error, nothing more.

quadibloc on April 16, 2011, 12:09:13 pm
I'm sure it was a typographical error, nothing more.
I quite agree. If a financial collapse can be viewed as an event of eschatological proportions, then we can be confident of that, because it's the Utopian socialists who commit the folly of attempting to immanentize the eschaton.

Holt on April 16, 2011, 12:28:52 pm
Growth obsessed capitalism works on boom and bust. Problem is few people are interested in sustainable capitalism least of all anarchists because it limits their ability to accumulate wealth.

GlennWatson on April 16, 2011, 01:05:48 pm
I'm sure it was a typographical error, nothing more.
I quite agree. If a financial collapse can be viewed as an event of eschatological proportions, then we can be confident of that, because it's the Utopian socialists who commit the folly of attempting to immanentize the eschaton.

It took me three attempts at careful reading before I got this.  Very funny. 

GlennWatson on April 16, 2011, 01:07:19 pm
Growth obsessed capitalism works on boom and bust. Problem is few people are interested in sustainable capitalism least of all anarchists because it limits their ability to accumulate wealth.

Nothing is sustainable.  As Keynes said, "In the long run we are all dead."

SandySandfort on April 16, 2011, 02:11:12 pm
Today's US is a fair enough analog--especially for the immanent financial collapse and subsequent social unrest (and potential collapse).

I think you mean imminent here.  The two words are often confused, but mean quite different things.


Quite right. My error.

Holt on April 16, 2011, 02:26:47 pm
Growth obsessed capitalism works on boom and bust. Problem is few people are interested in sustainable capitalism least of all anarchists because it limits their ability to accumulate wealth.

Nothing is sustainable.  As Keynes said, "In the long run we are all dead."

Well ok sustainable as in we don't have to sacrifice a generation every now and then to prop it up.

GlennWatson on April 16, 2011, 02:57:57 pm
Well ok sustainable as in we don't have to sacrifice a generation every now and then to prop it up.

Its inevitable.  The trick is making sure your little piece of the generation does not get sacrificed.  So far so good.

Aardvark on April 16, 2011, 03:42:04 pm
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It follows then that those who rule America do not identify with it.

That depends on what you mean by "Identify with." If it means identifying more with ideological concerns than American interests, then I'd say that your definition fits the entire executive branch, a third of the Supreme Court, about the same proportion of the the legislative branch, and 50% of the mainstream press. If you mean not identifying with American traditional values of individual rights and limited government, then the definition fits a whole lot more. This is s dreadful time to be an American.