Apollo-Soyuz on April 14, 2011, 07:47:46 am
Since things are generally "not illegal" rather than "legal" on AnCap Ceres, one presumes that augmentations that would be illegal on Earth aren't illegal there. Could the Black Mamba be surprised by running into someone faster?

Prediction (tongue-in-cheek): Chang is ordered and Ed is obliged (for some reason), to accept a duel.  Before it can start, Ronda gets subbed in for Chang, so Ed gets subbed out for Suki. 

T-cast duel that finishes the war cribbed out of the movie The Postman.


Holt on April 14, 2011, 08:08:24 am
Well on the subject of augmentations I would wager that there's few places to get them on ceres as there is nothing to stop the religious nutjobs from burning the places down every time.

quadibloc on April 14, 2011, 08:59:34 am
there is nothing to stop the religious nutjobs from burning the places down every time.
There is nothing to stop some people from among the vast majority of Cereans who want to see property rights respected from doing a number on the religious nutjobs, either. You must stop carrying over false assumptions from statist society into your picture of an AnCap society.

spudit on April 14, 2011, 10:17:19 am
I wonder, regarding a duel. If rejuv can do all it has been shown to do their medical tech is damned good. Good enough, I wonder, to fix a blown out heart?

Or will Rhonda shoot high or low or whatever in the funky gravity, not having had the talk Carlos recieved?
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Holt on April 14, 2011, 10:51:22 am
there is nothing to stop the religious nutjobs from burning the places down every time.
There is nothing to stop some people from among the vast majority of Cereans who want to see property rights respected from doing a number on the religious nutjobs, either. You must stop carrying over false assumptions from statist society into your picture of an AnCap society.

Why would the majority of cereans care? It's not their property. Plus the nutjobs can just do it quietly when no one is about.

GlennWatson on April 14, 2011, 12:27:06 pm
I would love to see the look on Black Mamba's face when the professorial takes her down with his superior AnCap reflexes.  A pistol duel at 20 paces would be cool.


Brugle on April 14, 2011, 12:56:45 pm
there is nothing to stop the religious nutjobs from burning the places down every time.
There is nothing to stop some people from among the vast majority of Cereans who want to see property rights respected from doing a number on the religious nutjobs, either. You must stop carrying over false assumptions from statist society into your picture of an AnCap society.

Why would the majority of cereans care? It's not their property.

Psychology can be very interesting, but does it matter?  I easily came up with 5 distinct possible motives for a person to voluntarily cooperate in protecting the rights of all, and I'm sure there are others.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 01:00:01 pm by Brugle »

Aardvark on April 14, 2011, 02:52:19 pm
I don't see why augmentation would be illegal on Ceres. There are probably some occupations that would fine faster reflexes and extra strength useful. "Black Mamba" -- nice reference to "Kill Bill," that, would fit right in if she wanted to do the Ceres thing. She'd have to be careful, though. Ceres isn't like Earth, where she could be reasonably sure that she was the baddest b****h around. Ceres gravity would work against her, too. Once she's in the air, she's an easy target for any trap shooter.

It could get interesting if she tries to start something, especially with so many cameras running.

I predict pain. 

wdg3rd on April 14, 2011, 03:33:30 pm
Since things are generally "not illegal" rather than "legal" on AnCap Ceres, one presumes that augmentations that would be illegal on Earth aren't illegal there. Could the Black Mamba be surprised by running into someone faster?

Prediction (tongue-in-cheek): Chang is ordered and Ed is obliged (for some reason), to accept a duel.  Before it can start, Ronda gets subbed in for Chang, so Ed gets subbed out for Suki. 

T-cast duel that finishes the war cribbed out of the movie The Postman.


While augmentation featured to Postman: the Novel, I do not recall it in the film.
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Apollo-Soyuz on April 14, 2011, 07:50:18 pm
A pistol duel at 20 paces would be cool.
---
While augmentation featured to Postman: the Novel, I do not recall it in the film.

Pre-caffeine post. With Suki vs. Ronda I was thinking a hand to hand brawl in the big open space of the Place de la Concorde. The Postman reference was merely for two armies assembled on the battlefield and having it all come down to personal fight between two leaders.

Aardvark on April 15, 2011, 09:21:42 pm
Any more plot predictions?

I've been trying figure out the possibilities with this Christmas War thing.

Chang seems to think that the Army company he nominally commands is there to take over Ceres after provoking a casus belli. Clearly, Chang believes that the Cereans are no match for his troops. Ed thinks that the U.W. company is being set up: the U.W. is looking for a casus belli, all right, but they don't think the company would win on its own, in fact, they don't want them to win. The U.W's real purpose, he thinks, is to create buckets of blood and body parts to edit and spin as barbarian aggression to the U.W's captive population.

Ok, as far as it goes, but it's a bit confusing. Do the U.W. subjects have access to the tanglenet? For the U.W's plans to work, I'm assuming that they do, but it's filtered. It would be ridiculous, after all, to claim one thing, then be proven as not only liars, but murderers, too. And yet, copies of the true incident would eventually be out there for all to see, unless the U.W. was planning to sever their population from the tanglenet entirely, which could be explained to the serfs as necessary because of war.

Consider the situation the U.W. is in: The checks will start bouncing soon, which will demonstrate to one and all the failure of the state and the lies they'd been feeding them, but what if they can blame all their problems on the Cereans? That changes things. The U.W. can launch a war against Ceres and pretend the Cereans started it, blame any damage to their economy on the Cereans, shut down on the tanglenet, and do whatever they want to unimpeded. By the time the truth is known, the war will be over and Ceres will be subdued or obliterated.

Now what would conceivably stop this nefarious plan before it gets off the ground? I think it would be very nice indeed to have a recording of Rhonda demanding that Chang order his troops to start killing Cereans, and, btw, spilling the entire evil U.W. plot. Before anything happens, Ed, or even better, Guy, (haven't seen much of him lately) walks in on Rhonda and tells her that the troops have heard everything.

Rhonda goes into a rage and attacks Guy, who, being more used to Cerean gravity, and is a skilled knife fighter, manages to hold her in the air where her strength would be useless, and put a knife to her throat. The U.W. troops are offered the same deal as the earlier invasion fleet and many stay.

I don't this will all happen, but I'd love to see it.

SandySandfort on April 15, 2011, 10:30:18 pm
Nice analysis, but let's see what happens. BTW:

Quote from: Aardvark link=topic=563.msg13843#msg13843

Chang seems to think that the Army company he nominally commands is there to take over Ceres after provoking a casus belli. Clearly, Chang believes that the Cereans are no match for his troops. Ed thinks that the U.W. company is being set up: the U.W. is looking for a casus belli, all right, but they don't think the company would win on its own, in fact, they don't want them to win. The U.W's real purpose, he thinks, is to create buckets of blood and body parts to edit and spin as barbarian aggression to the U.W's captive population.

That's a very good description of what Chang and Ed are thinking. (It's Cererean, BTW.)

Quote from: Aardvark link=topic=563.msg13843#msg13843
Ok, as far as it goes, but it's a bit confusing. Do the U.W. subjects have access to the tanglenet? For the U.W's plans to work, I'm assuming that they do, but it's filtered.

Consumer tanglenet is set up to pass through a central node where it can be monitored, much as internet traffic can be intercepted. Encryption is possible, but who bothers? Think of the Western democracies now. There are all sorts of disclosure about government misdeeds on the internet, not to mention sites such as Wikileaks (my choice for the Nobel Peace Prize). However, internet sources are marginalized by the captive mainstream media and the government disinformation machine. Of course, there are black market tanglenet comms that do not pass through the monitoring nodes, nor contain GPS information. They are illegal because they could be used by "organized crime, terrorists and pedophiles." (You know, just like matches, telephones and automobiles.)

Quote from: Aardvark link=topic=563.msg13843#msg13843
... unless the U.W. was planning to sever their population from the tanglenet entirely, which could be explained to the serfs as necessary because of war.

The Obama Kill Switch? While it would be possible to cut off the normal commercial tanglenet by shutting down the nodes, illegal direct tanglenet comms would be totally untouched, or indeed, untouchable. Even though illegal, a lot of people have them, like unlicensed radio receivers in the old Soviet Union. Think "Radio Free Terra."


Aardvark on April 16, 2011, 06:58:55 am
Quote
Consumer tanglenet is set up to pass through a central node where it can be monitored, much as internet traffic can be intercepted. Encryption is possible, but who bothers? Think of the Western democracies now. There are all sorts of disclosure about government misdeeds on the internet, not to mention sites such as Wikileaks (my choice for the Nobel Peace Prize). However, internet sources are marginalized by the captive mainstream media and the government disinformation machine.

Okay. That narrows it down a good bit. It's nice to get a feel for the U.W. Dictatorships come in many flavors. The modern dictatorships are generally much harder to overthrow because of modern technology. China is a good example. The protest movement that might have started at Tienamen Square was snuffed out early on because camera surveillance made it easy to identify the protest leaders. It took a while, but eventually, they disappeared. China's Internet filtering is combined with government monitors whose job is to flush out potential dissidents. The Chinese control movement within the country, and absolutely do not tolerate criticism. Students are given a state-approved education. As shown in the West Bank and Gaza strip, indoctrination from birth is remarkably effective. For these reasons, I've always thought that a world-wide dictatorship would be next to impossible to get rid of. It might not be Oceania, but using modern technology, it's controlling agency would be at least as effective as the Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, or the Ministry for State Security, the Stasi.

If the U.W. tolerates outside sources of information, then it looks like the U.W is a couple of steps below that level of control.

Quote
The Obama Kill Switch? While it would be possible to cut off the normal commercial tanglenet by shutting down the nodes, illegal direct tanglenet comms would be totally untouched, or indeed, untouchable. Even though illegal, a lot of people have them, like unlicensed radio receivers in the old Soviet Union. Think "Radio Free Terra."

Something very much like the Obama kill switch, yes.

*** Edited to delete extra text.

Holt on April 16, 2011, 07:20:16 am
Honestly I doubt the UW would be as terrible as the author makes it out to be if such a system actually came to pass. The internal competition for power alone would make the old European throne struggles look positively pleasant. Making the bumbling retards we've seen so far be the dregs at the bottom of the barrel who failed utterly.

mellyrn on April 16, 2011, 08:31:32 am
Quote
It would be ridiculous, after all, to claim one thing, then be proven as not only liars, but murderers, too.

"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -- George Orwell

A huge portion of my countrymen are living proof of this.