Rorschach on April 28, 2011, 03:50:01 am
I don't need a transcript.  It is hard to fool someone's mother.
and then charging the cockpit in the third plane? His MOM didn't believe it was him. "Who calls their mother and gives their full name?" was her reply.
No it was not.
I don't understand what you're trying to say, I think you're agreeing with me that the cell phone calls were faked. At the same time, you seem to claim Al Qaeda was responsible for 911. According to you, did Al Qaeda fake the cell phone calls? Please be unambiguous.

sam on April 28, 2011, 04:12:38 am
Quote from: sam
I don't need a transcript.  It is hard to fool someone's mother.
and then charging the cockpit in the third plane? His MOM didn't believe it was him. "Who calls their mother and gives their full name?" was her reply.
No it was not.
I don't understand what you're trying to say, I think you're agreeing with me that the cell phone calls were faked. At the same time, you seem to claim Al Qaeda was responsible for 911. According to you, did Al Qaeda fake the cell phone calls? Please be unambiguous.

It is insane to suggest that the cell phone calls were faked, since many of them were made to family and friends.

His Mom knew who it was.  She did not reply "who calls their mother and gives their full name".

« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 04:26:23 am by sam »

Rorschach on April 28, 2011, 04:43:29 am
Thanks, it makes much more sense when you simply deny reality.

sam on April 28, 2011, 05:40:48 am
]Space habitats are extremely vulnerable to attack - but so are skyscrapers.  We protect skyscrapers against state enemies, not by armoring them up, but by threatening reprisals against states.  Earth, being at the bottom of a gravity well, is quite vulnerable to reprisals.

Thus it is plausible that United Worlds would pursue a strategy of propaganda, intimidation, infiltration, and low level war, like the Soviet Union did, rather than total war like Nazi Germany did.  Cereans have nukes, and rocks.  Swords protect better than shields.
I'll claim you need to thermite or C4 the support beams to take out a skyscraper

Or a thousand pound high explosive bomb dropped from an aircraft.

A city underwater or in space has a large shell with airlocks, all of which are vulnerable. Gravity wells make a huge difference, reprisals are possible only from short range though. A moon based railgun/mass driver launch of rocks still requires a few days to arrive, and the UW should have basic intercept craft.

The vastness of space makes it hard to see stuff.

If countermissiles have the edge over missiles, as well they might, then by the same argument, UW cannot get at Ceres unless the Cereans let them.

If countermissile has the upper hand, then the situation is like knights versus castles.  The castle cannot attack the knight, nor the knight the castle, with the result that the Kings authority tended to evaporate a short distance from himself.  If on the other hand, missile has the upper hand, if it is hard to detect an oncoming rock, and hard to deflect a large oncoming rock, then you get the peace of terror, as in the cold war, when no one wants to risk high level warfare, and everyone tries low level warfare and gimmicks.

In our world large nations, including quite aggressive large nations, coexisted with small nations, in part because conquering them often turned out to be horribly costly, as with the Soviet Union's conquest of Finland, in part because conquering them could have cataclysmic consequences, as with the Soviet Union's conquest of Poland.  For a thousand years, conquerors have been trying to unite Europe by violence, and it just has not worked.

Consider a rock that intercepts earth with a relative velocity of sixty kilometers per second.  (Head on collision, same orbit as earth, opposite direction)  TNT has about 5Megajoules per kilo, whereas a rock at sixty kilometers per second has about 3600 Megajoules per kilo.    So a rock less than a meter in diameter will hit with a one kiloton explosion.  I doubt one can detect such rocks from far away.

Big rocks hard to deflect in limited time, small rocks hard to detect in time.  Space dwellers are depicted as routinely deploying quite large energies for civilian purposes, which would suggest a peace of terror, similar to the cold war.



J Thomas on April 28, 2011, 07:33:47 am

The vastness of space makes it hard to see stuff.

If countermissiles have the edge over missiles, as well they might, then by the same argument, UW cannot get at Ceres unless the Cereans let them.

Assuming Cererians have invested in countermissiles. When nobody in particular has responsibility to do that, but people might dig into their own pockets to do it assuming that producers of countermissiles will sell to individuals, it might not happen.

Quote
If countermissile has the upper hand, then the situation is like knights versus castles.  The castle cannot attack the knight, nor the knight the castle, with the result that the Kings authority tended to evaporate a short distance from himself.  If on the other hand, missile has the upper hand, if it is hard to detect an oncoming rock, and hard to deflect a large oncoming rock, then you get the peace of terror, as in the cold war, when no one wants to risk high level warfare, and everyone tries low level warfare and gimmicks.

In our world large nations, including quite aggressive large nations, coexisted with small nations, in part because conquering them often turned out to be horribly costly, as with the Soviet Union's conquest of Finland, in part because conquering them could have cataclysmic consequences, as with the Soviet Union's conquest of Poland.  For a thousand years, conquerors have been trying to unite Europe by violence, and it just has not worked.

Consider a rock that intercepts earth with a relative velocity of sixty kilometers per second.  (Head on collision, same orbit as earth, opposite direction)  TNT has about 5Megajoules per kilo, whereas a rock at sixty kilometers per second has about 3600 Megajoules per kilo.    So a rock less than a meter in diameter will hit with a one kiloton explosion.  I doubt one can detect such rocks from far away.

Big rocks hard to deflect in limited time, small rocks hard to detect in time.  Space dwellers are depicted as routinely deploying quite large energies for civilian purposes, which would suggest a peace of terror, similar to the cold war.

I find this post logical and carefully thought out. It doesn't have to apply to EFT, but it makes clear sense. Thank you.

Rorschach on April 28, 2011, 08:56:25 am
Your best countermissile is still lasers and masers with fast targeting systems. I think there is a lot of technical misinformation regarding masers, but it is pretty well known you can scale up lasers as big as you want. Masers, not so much. On the other hand I might make a maser from kitchen appliances and have the signal go through concrete to take out electronics on the other side. The main difference between mining and missile defense would be targeting.

Kinetics attacking Ceres is still a problem, but Ceres has more intercept gear (miners with private space craft) than current day Earth. Earth today is tracking tons of objects in space, I did some research into "what would it take to mine nearby asteroids" and there are only a few real difficulties: launch, matching velocity, where do I deliver my payload? Moon mining will probably happen first due to the 3rd issue. After that, there is a lot of nickel-iron floating around near Earth and they will probably grab it fast since you have some near, slow moving asteroids worth a few hundred billion at today's commodity prices.

I don't see kinetic attacks against Earth in this scenario as very effective. In Moon is A Harsh Mistress, asteroid mining hadn't taken off and there was inadequate defense and cooperation. Consider a big asteroid is an End Game scenario for Earth and we are having a few "near misses" each decade, it should be handled soon. Also, blocking an incoming kinetic attack is easy with a large mass driver on Earth or Moon. Considering one can nearly be built with off the shelf hardware today for around $20-50 million, I think that's the future of space launches.

 

anything