Holt on February 18, 2011, 10:02:08 am
Giving up their guns?  This is unexpected.  I hope an explanation of why the men are doing this explains their motivation.

I can see where it's going and honestly? I'm disappointed.

It's going to follow one of two paths:

Path one: The anarchists win over the soldiers who all quit and become anarchists.

Path two: Things go well at first then a fight breaks out and despite holding every advantage the soldiers display retardation on par with a brain damaged squirrel and fuck everything up, eventually being beaten in a colossal display of stupidity by the anarchists who send them packing back to Earth except for the ones who convert.

spudit on February 18, 2011, 10:20:31 am
Bravo Ed, absolutely Bravo!

No matter what happens the gesture was made, in public and on the record; this will count.

I suppose the army big shots are watching and the reasonable solider is done for.
He might as well defect.

Christmas War, I get it, like the WWI soccer game on Christmas. nice.

Bravo Ed, absolutely Bravo!


 
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J Thomas on February 18, 2011, 10:26:52 am

The UW can tax Ceres real gold, not fiat paper continentals

As for taxing them gold. Gold is worthless, why would they want gold? Outside of a handful of industrial or tech uses there is no value to gold.

Tell that to people who search for pirate gold.

When you have gold it means you're a winner, not a loser. If you can pay a blackmailer or a kidnapper with gold it means you're worth blackmailing or kidnapping.

Diamonds would be even better -- they can be far more valuable per gram -- but most people need a diamond appraiser they trust before they even know what they have. Without an expert you can't tell whether a diamond is flawed or synthetic. So they aren't as good after all.

If people are poor and they think the UW is bankrupt they're likely to revolt. If they are poor and they think the UW has lots of gold they won't. Does it make sense? No. People often don't make sense. But often they can predict what other people will do whether it makes sense or not. The UW can survive if it has a pile of gold to sit on like a dragon, and it's likely to fail otherwise.

What if they could somehow pretend they got a big pile of gold from the Belt, and nobody particularly denies it? Would that be enough? Yes. It probably would.

I can imagine you objecting to this. "It doesn't make sense! Why would people put up with a greedy UW that doesn't share its (fake) gold with them, when they wouldn't put up with a feckless UW that spends more than it can tax from them?" I'm sorry. It doesn't make sense.

If people made sense they'd probably have a lot less government.

Holt on February 18, 2011, 04:33:32 pm

If people made sense they'd probably have a lot less government.


If people made sense then no doubt we'd have something better suited to us which wouldn't be either outright.

spudit on February 19, 2011, 10:51:10 am
Can anyone please tell me what that last string of words means? Bits and pieces make sense but what the hell does the sentence mean?
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J Thomas on February 19, 2011, 12:32:26 pm
Can anyone please tell me what that last string of words means? Bits and pieces make sense but what the hell does the sentence mean?

Pretty often people do a sort of informal communication which doesn't officially make sense but which is understandable. And sometimes we get confused. I'll say how I intepreted Holt's statement, and maybe he'll say what he really meant.

I thought he was saying "If people made sense they'd build something that was not a statist autocracy or a full AnCap society, but which didn't completely fit either definition but which suited them and made sense".

GlennWatson on February 21, 2011, 05:05:51 pm
If the Earth invasion is stopped by an invitation to play cards then I don't buy it.  I know the story is not over yet so I reserve judgement but this is not looking good.

sams on February 21, 2011, 05:13:54 pm
If the Earth invasion is stopped by an invitation to play cards then I don't buy it.  I know the story is not over yet so I reserve judgement but this is not looking good.

playing cards here probably symbolize the cultural angle of the question, since a AnCap society only survive not only by military force but also by being culturally able to absord aliens ... in this case the soldiers.

For if the UW is willing to control the place they must break the AnCap spirit and not have their own troops sucked into it.

but hey lets wait  :)

Plane on February 21, 2011, 06:04:27 pm
That the Cerians are willing to accept the "Contental" paper money in a game on a par with their coin makes this episode a thinly disguised bribe.

Perhaps it will not be difficult for the Cerians to loose more in the games than the soldiers draw in pay.


Then when they go shopping a few don't return, their Commander is faced with mutiny like Captain Bligh on the Bounty.

Apollo-Soyuz on February 21, 2011, 07:17:25 pm
That the Cerians are willing to accept the "Contental" paper money in a game on a par with their coin makes this episode a thinly disguised bribe.

Perhaps it will not be difficult for the Cerians to loose more in the games than the soldiers draw in pay.

Then when they go shopping a few don't return, their Commander is faced with mutiny like Captain Bligh on the Bounty.

Perhaps the Merchant's Association can set up a fund for the UW troops to exchange their paper. Something like Germany's decision to take East German Marks on par upon reunification. It's in everyone's best interest to turn the UW troops.

SandySandfort on February 21, 2011, 08:04:05 pm
If the Earth invasion is stopped by an invitation to play cards then I don't buy it.  I know the story is not over yet so I reserve judgement but this is not looking good.

What Earth invasion?

KBCraig on February 22, 2011, 02:03:10 am
If the Earth invasion is stopped by an invitation to play cards then I don't buy it.  I know the story is not over yet so I reserve judgement but this is not looking good.

What Earth invasion?

Invasion by UW/terran forces, not of Earth.

I think.  ;)

SandySandfort on February 22, 2011, 08:30:32 am
If the Earth invasion is stopped by an invitation to play cards then I don't buy it.  I know the story is not over yet so I reserve judgement but this is not looking good.

What Earth invasion?

Invasion by UW/terran forces, not of Earth.

I think.  ;)

Yeah, I got that. Let me make it simpler. "What Earth invasion, of Ceres?" So far, all we have seen is a bunch of--for want of a better term--tourists, who are on Ceres "legally." Why would one characterize that as a "invasion"? I see no initiation of hostilities or threats of force.

quadibloc on February 22, 2011, 12:45:24 pm
Yeah, I got that. Let me make it simpler. "What Earth invasion, of Ceres?" So far, all we have seen is a bunch of--for want of a better term--tourists, who are on Ceres "legally." Why would one characterize that as a "invasion"? I see no initiation of hostilities or threats of force.
Fortunately, Cerereans aren't stupid, and they know that the UW does have an "ulterior motive" or "hidden agenda".

I would think that if this... operation... is successfully defused, though, they would at least consider bending their principles by screening arrivals at their spaceport from now on. It's going to take a lot of work to prevent the UW's scheme from succeeding, and maybe even some loss of life. (Of course, I suppose the UW is going to suffer such a humiliating defeat that they won't try this again. Fun story, but I keep thinking about the real-world applicability of AnCap.)

spudit on February 22, 2011, 01:06:10 pm
I wonder if in a more real world someone on Luna might have seen the troops board and told their brother in law on Ceres via TN, hey, I just saw the damndest thing...

Gossip, it may be hard wired into us.

Were the first 4, the officers it seems, invaders or just troublemakers?

I go with the latter.
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