terry_freeman on February 22, 2011, 03:22:08 pm
Regarding screening: why tinker with what works?

AnCap does not chase after that idiot idea of "Perfect Security"; it will not be led down the path toward funding TSA goons who poke and prod and inspect and make nuisances of themselves, with no actual improvement security-wise.

Today's panel suggests Ed's plan: to drive a wedge between the enlisted men and the officers. Chang is reading the men the riot act for "fraternizing with the natives", I am sure. Meanwhile, the men now have a little bit of gold in their pockets; they will be tempted to go looking for food, women, other forms of entertainment. Some of them may switch sides, no doubt.

Brugle on February 22, 2011, 04:12:57 pm
I would think that if this... operation... is successfully defused, though, they would at least consider bending their principles by screening arrivals at their spaceport from now on.

I see you still don't understand the principles of voluntary cooperation.  Screening (whatever that means) arrivals wouldn't necessarily be a violation of basic principles.  Owners have the right to invite or exclude anyone from their property.  My guess is that the spaceport is owned by a group of quite a few people, with freedom of access guaranteed in the bylaws, so it would be hard (but not impossible) to change.  However, owners of other property could easily establish conditions for access.

I doubt "screening" would be established--why go to the expense when it is unlikely to improve security?  Besides, the Cerereans we've seen aren't as frightened of strangers as you seem to be.

GlennWatson on February 22, 2011, 04:51:34 pm
Its possible this is not an invasion from Earth, but clearly the writers is trying to make us think it is, in the comic, if not the message board. 

Letís say its not.  Lets say its just an innocent group of military wannabees who like to march and follow orders, who just happened to come to Ceres under the authority of an ex military leader.

Its ok to have a red herring in a story but if the whole story is some elaborate trick by the write-in on the reader that get old real fast.

Iím suspicious whenever the writer gives hints about a current story outside of the actual story.  Either he canít tell the story inside the lines or he is being cute.

macsnafu on February 22, 2011, 05:06:19 pm
I would think that if this... operation... is successfully defused, though, they would at least consider bending their principles by screening arrivals at their spaceport from now on.

I see you still don't understand the principles of voluntary cooperation.  Screening (whatever that means) arrivals wouldn't necessarily be a violation of basic principles.  Owners have the right to invite or exclude anyone from their property.  My guess is that the spaceport is owned by a group of quite a few people, with freedom of access guaranteed in the bylaws, so it would be hard (but not impossible) to change.  However, owners of other property could easily establish conditions for access.

I doubt "screening" would be established--why go to the expense when it is unlikely to improve security?  Besides, the Cerereans we've seen aren't as frightened of strangers as you seem to be.


I believe that David Brin is the one who argues against the "right to privacy", that information is too easily gatherable and distributable, and that it's really better to embrace transparency.
In an Ancap society, where vices aren't crimes,  transparency might be easier to embrace, although some people might still be tempted to pretend to be something that they aren't.
I love mankind.  It's PEOPLE I can't stand!  - Linus Van Pelt.

Brugle on February 22, 2011, 06:52:22 pm
Its possible this is not an invasion from Earth, but clearly the writers is trying to make us think it is, in the comic, if not the message board. 
I don't think that's "clear".  To me the only strong suggestion that an invasion will come is the name "The Christmas War".  But maybe the arc ends with a big tug-of-war party. :D

Letís say its not.  Lets say its just an innocent group of military wannabees who like to march and follow orders, who just happened to come to Ceres under the authority of an ex military leader.
Or it could be something in between.  Strip #601 says "most people figured them for deserters", and maybe most people are right.  Perhaps they expected Ceres to be lawless chaos.  Finding that reality didn't match UW propaganda, they are marking time until their leaders come up with a new plan.

Iím suspicious whenever the writer gives hints about a current story outside of the actual story.  Either he canít tell the story inside the lines or he is being cute.
Maybe it's a real hint, maybe misdirection.  I took it as emphasizing that Cerereans don't know what's going on and neither do we.

SandySandfort on February 22, 2011, 09:44:36 pm
Its possible this is not an invasion from Earth, but clearly the writers is trying to make us think it is, in the comic, if not the message board. 

So, I guess it didn't occur to you that I might not be addressing the story, so much as the rush to assumptions about what is or is not implied by the elements within the story.

Its ok to have a red herring in a story but if the whole story is some elaborate trick by the write-in on the reader that get old real fast.

Yes, if.

Iím suspicious whenever the writer gives hints about a current story outside of the actual story.  Either he canít tell the story inside the lines or he is being cute.

You really think those are the only two possibilities? Where's your imagination? Of course, I am cute, or so the ladies tell me.  ::)

EchoMirage on February 23, 2011, 02:29:46 am
Greetings from Germany,

I am a big fan of EFT since I found it 6 months ago. I read the archives twice before
I got my eyes on this forum. And since then I liked it even more.

It took me a while to convince myself to sign in, because it would be my first english
forum and furthermore I don't know much about Ancap and similar topics.
(And if you know nothing about something, just shut up)

But this

Quote
If your first language was not English, you get a pass.

from SandySanford helped me to make a try.

So here I am, covered by a dictionary, and I hope I can be part of some smart and interesting discussions. Well I still don't know anything about AnCap, but I will just take my time and until
then will stay out of such topics.

But now back to the "The Christmas War" topic:

Well it is smart from Prof. Ed to disturb the speech from Cpt. Chang in public.
I don't think Chang is trained in public relations skills (exspecially for  society of Ceres )
so chances  he mess up are high.

Well but it is hard to stop fraternization in a non hostile situation in general. And the
soldiers are just waiting and I believe bored to hell if they just have to wait. And Boredom
is the seed for nearly every stupid action. (for the UW)

I also believe that the UW troops are just a preperation team for a bigger scale operation.
Just like Prof. Ed mentioned. But I think the UW just not only want to get a cause. I think
they have another use for the troops.

1. Step: get Information -> done
2. Step: prepare the battleground -> in action
3. Step: start invasion -> next to come

So, how to prepare a battleground on Ceres? A dwarf Planet in the belt.

Solid economic.
Extremly decentralized.
Unshakeable communication.
Zero-Aggression but still a hard punch.

Hooboy, thats a task no one want to have. Could there be a solution for UW?
And what is Ceres answer?

I cant wait to see what happens next.


 

I just have an Opinion

And Opinions are like a..h....

Everybody has one

Holt on February 23, 2011, 04:18:18 am
I would think that if this... operation... is successfully defused, though, they would at least consider bending their principles by screening arrivals at their spaceport from now on. It's going to take a lot of work to prevent the UW's scheme from succeeding, and maybe even some loss of life. (Of course, I suppose the UW is going to suffer such a humiliating defeat that they won't try this again. Fun story, but I keep thinking about the real-world applicability of AnCap.)

Oh no they will never violate their principles because their principles are flawless and perfect. Remember this is propaganda.
As for the real world applicability of AnCap? I can honestly say I doubt the writer or most of the folk on this board have ever thought that hard about it.

terry_freeman on February 23, 2011, 04:39:48 am
I would think that if this... operation... is successfully defused, though, they would at least consider bending their principles by screening arrivals at their spaceport from now on. It's going to take a lot of work to prevent the UW's scheme from succeeding, and maybe even some loss of life. (Of course, I suppose the UW is going to suffer such a humiliating defeat that they won't try this again. Fun story, but I keep thinking about the real-world applicability of AnCap.)

Oh no they will never violate their principles because their principles are flawless and perfect. Remember this is propaganda.
As for the real world applicability of AnCap? I can honestly say I doubt the writer or most of the folk on this board have ever thought that hard about it.

Thought about it? We practice it, Holt.

While you tell us "it can't be done", we teach our own.

While you tell us "it can't be done", we defend our own.

While you tell us "it can't be done", we build our safety nets.

You rail against it as "impossible"; we do it.

As for you, thinking about AnCap clearly isn't your strong suit. It's far easier to condemn the idea out of hand.

Tell us, Holt, how many terrorists have been caught by the TSA? By my count, if they were to catch one more, that would bring the grand total to . . . one.

They have, however, caught a few breast-feeding moms, more than a few nail clippers, bottles of shampoo, and other "dangerous weapons" of that sort.

This you want to export to Ceres? Clearly, you haven't thought a lot about it.
 

SandySandfort on February 23, 2011, 08:35:11 am
Excellent first post. Good English too.

I am a big fan of EFT since I found it 6 months ago. I read the archives twice before I got my eyes on this forum. And since then I liked it even more.

It took me a while to convince myself to sign in, because it would be my first english forum and furthermore I don't know much about Ancap and similar topics. (And if you know nothing about something, just shut up)

Good idea, but I would add, that if you know nothing about something, do some outside reading so you can speak knowledgeably when you do decide to contribute. There are thousands of places to read about topics touched upon in EFT, but two easy introductions can be found in the Wikipedia:

   https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Anarchocapitalism

   https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Zero_Aggression_Principle

These two principles form the basis for EFT's Belter society. Reasonable minds may differ, of course. It is okay with me, if you choose to disagree with AnCap and NAP/ZAP, but to criticize them intelligently, you first have to understand them. Though there is a "loyal opposition" on this Forum, sadly, there are also those who, through ignorance or malice, choose to loudly denounce AnCap and ZAP, by misrepresenting them. You are off to a great start and I believe you will be one of our best contributors, no matter what principle you choose to live by. Welcome.

spudit on February 23, 2011, 11:24:47 am
Yes indeed welcome.

Your English far surpasses my German, you are way ahead.

Look at Sandy's links, Wikipedia being international, you may find something similar on the Duetsch version.

A reference to the Belgian government thread since you are so physically close to Belguim,
do the Belgians make good ice cream?
Vote Early and Vote Often
for EFT
have you voted today?

Plane on February 23, 2011, 05:09:56 pm
Greetings from Germany,


 




Congradulations , your English is 1000% better than my German , I don't see why you should be shy about using it anywhere.

EchoMirage on February 24, 2011, 04:41:08 am
Thank you all,

I appreciate your welcome and your praise.

Even though I still don't think I am very good with my english writing skills.
Because I need so much time to write, that it is far beyond disappointment.

But for now I will do my best for some smart contribute.


Strip 644:

So Capt. Chang got a problem now. Moments ago he gave his soldiers hellfire,
so they won't fraternize, and now Ed is holding his hand out for a handshake.

Problem for Chang is:

Either he takes his hand so that the cams take a good shot of good will UW.
But that would contradict his speech against fraternization and he will loose
credibility, which is a huge handicap as an officer.

Or he refuses the handshake and get his dogs in check.
But that would also hazard his further plans, because the cams will send pictures
of these action and that would show the unfriendly UW troops rejecting an offer
of peace.

It's all the same.

That reminds me of the windmill tactic in chess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windmill_(chess)


So what will Chang do? Or is there a third possibillity?
I just have an Opinion

And Opinions are like a..h....

Everybody has one

Brugle on February 24, 2011, 01:32:51 pm
Problem for Chang is:

Either he takes his hand so that the cams take a good shot of good will UW.
But that would contradict his speech against fraternization and he will loose
credibility, which is a huge handicap as an officer.

Or he refuses the handshake and get his dogs in check.
But that would also hazard his further plans, because the cams will send pictures
of these action and that would show the unfriendly UW troops rejecting an offer
of peace.
Sounds like good analysis to me.  I think the first option wouldn't be too bad (from Chang's point of view).  Common soldiers know that officers are allowed to do things that they are not.

Or is there a third possibillity?
Lots of possibilities.  Chang could fake a "fit" (Sherlock Holmes style) or say that he got an emergency call and must leave.  But my guess is that he'll shake hands.

spudit on February 24, 2011, 03:13:41 pm
That's the bitch about being an officer, EchoMirage, if they won't obey it don't say it.

I wonder what he said to the troops about the natives. Stay away for sure but beyond that, did he say why? What are they to Chang, savages, tax dodgers, dope smoking hippie anarchists? I like that one.

Rhonda, if I remember right, that shapely woman in the foursome,  gave Chang an order when the bar fight fizzled then led the group out. Could she be the boss?
Vote Early and Vote Often
for EFT
have you voted today?

 

anything