spudit on January 04, 2011, 05:14:53 pm
I have heard it said people with carry permits have a lower incidence of violent crime than school teachers or the clergy. Now then a school teacher nun with a yardstick...

To paraphrase an ex Prez, it depends on what your definition of gun is. Note, in Chicago, LA, DC, NYC a good old 1911 sitting on a table is clearly an offensive weapon, as in who are you going to kill with that. At least in the first city I have heard it said as such. In many places out in America it is a defensive weapon. Among gun people it's just there, about as remarkable as any other long range power drill. It depends on you more than on the 2 pounds of steel just sitting there.

I wonder, a question for you writer and  management types, does Libby the newly graduated adult carry now and did she before?
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SandySandfort on January 04, 2011, 07:11:53 pm
I wonder, a question for you writer and  management types, does Libby the newly graduated adult carry now and did she before?

In my stories, yes, both before and after. though most likely a knife before. Her first carry gun will probably be a gift from a family member.

Now the story can be told. I have told the artists, "More Guns, Less Gravity!" Let's see if it takes.  :)

Plane on January 04, 2011, 08:41:55 pm
On another thread I was informed that Ceries escape velocity was near Mach 2.


So most firearms would fire sub orbital projectiles?

On Earth most rifle bullets are dangerous for a mile or more only a few are a threat over two miles.


On Ceries the ranges of ordinairy firearms would be extraordinary , a careless shot might skim along at dangerous height completely over the horizon.

If you had a very powerfull rifle I wonder if you could put a bullet into orbit at a six foot altitude? That thing could be dangerous for a month.

On tiny asteroids of course a stray bullet would simply escape and become another asteroid itself , no more of a threat than any other simularly sized asteroid, but on small airless worlds one might have to exercise extra care insureing that your bullets were appropriately powerfulland that backstops were behind your target. 

spudit on January 04, 2011, 09:09:12 pm
Any small fast moving object would be a threat in space, lead or nickel iron. It seems like the small diameter means the surface curves away fast. Bullets move in a straight line so it would leave the immediate surface fast. Now does it come back down? Wikipedia puts the escape velocity at .51 KPS, call it 1700 FPS. So most pistols no and most rifles yes
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Plane on January 04, 2011, 09:14:29 pm
Any small fast moving object would be a threat in space, lead or nickel iron. It seems like the small diameter means the surface curves away fast. Bullets move in a straight line so it would leave the immediate surface fast. Now does it come back down? Wikipedia puts the escape velocity at .51 KPS, call it 1700 FPS. So most pistols no and most rifles yes


Of course the worst coincidince would be haveing a firearm that happened to push a projectile at exactly the speed of a low orbit.
You would be aiming at yourself no matter what direction you fired in .

J Thomas on January 04, 2011, 09:34:24 pm

Of course the worst coincidince would be haveing a firearm that happened to push a projectile at exactly the speed of a low orbit.
You would be aiming at yourself no matter what direction you fired in .

Somebody wrote a short story on that topic a long time ago. I've forgotten whether it was Frank Herbert, Arthur C Clarke, or someone else. I believe it was set on Luna, and as I remember it he had US and USSR military space stations having an armed dispute that resulted in a bunch of machine gun bullets in similarly low orbit. They quickly stopped fighting and concentrated on repairing the damages to structures etc that happened predictably every X hours.

quadibloc on January 05, 2011, 12:18:32 am
It looks like the less-than-gentlemanly individual at the bar is spoiling for a fight, which seems to explain how the foursome has obtained the sobriquet of "Miners' Canaries". Apparently they're not the only people on Ceres who haven't quite internalized the ZAP yet.

terry_freeman on January 05, 2011, 01:51:34 am

"An armed society is a polite society"
Robert Heinlein

Want to see people of all races, sexes, ages and socioeconomic level, get along in near perfect harmony? Hang out at a shooting range. Guns are the great equalizer in more ways than one.

Good point, that. I used to hang out at shooting ranges a lot, as one of the leaders of the local Pink Pistols chapter, and nobody ever gave us homosexuals any grief. Never saw anybody giving anybody grief either, unless it was for being a fool when it came to gun safety. Saw whites, hispanics, blacks, asians of all ages and, judging by external appearances, socioeconomic status. If you could pay $6 for the range fee and buy a box of ammo, you could use the range - no great economic hurdle, that. People often would lend weapons, also. In fact, when I competed in three-gun matches, total strangers lent me some fine shotguns and rifles, and provided ammo.

spudit on January 05, 2011, 10:22:59 am
Good point about ranges guys.

Another place that is as egalitarian as can be is a marina. I've lived on boats most of the last couple years. Like the Belters, they are an independent bunch because they know they are IT. Have a fire or a heart attack even 100 yards off shore and you are all alone. So they prepare, get extra safety gear, backup this and redundant that, get that big boy or girl mind set.

They are dreamers too, they probably won't head for Tahiti but by the Gawds they reserve that option.

People who are prepared to cover there own backsides, own self contained mobile living pods and dream of escaping the confines of the foolishness are hard to control. Good folks and out there we are all equal; it brings out the best in them.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 01:50:33 pm by spudit »
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Scott Martin on January 05, 2011, 11:04:42 am
Quadiblock, I notice Chekov's gun behind the bartender in the last panel of today's strip. I wonder when we will enter act 3...

As far as "Them's Fighting Words" if our three "heroes" assault the not-so-polite bar patron, are they the aggressors (ZAP - they have initiated force) or is he the agressor ("Fighting words" - he is clearly inviting them / forcing them to initiate)


spudit on January 05, 2011, 11:13:38 am
It looks like the less-than-gentlemanly individual at the bar is spoiling for a fight, which seems to explain how the foursome has obtained the sobriquet of "Miners' Canaries". Apparently they're not the only people on Ceres who haven't quite internalized the ZAP yet.

Silly me, I just realized the Canaries aren't wearing the sort of belt ballast Ed and Carlos have so this a learning experience in progress. On the foursome's side, it is part of an intricate plot more suited to hot head Carlos than mellow Ed. Pick a fight and die, smart, and what did we learn today?

No one has been killed since Harris and co, are we due?

Is there a formal etiquette to challenges beyond the hands off policy?  

Lead on Storytellers, lead on.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 01:52:29 pm by spudit »
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SandySandfort on January 05, 2011, 12:16:19 pm
Another place that is as egalitarian as can be is a marina. I've lived on boats most of the last couple years. Like the belt, they are an independent bunch because they know they are it...

Wow, the yachties! You are 100% correct. They are probably the closest earthly analogs to Belters. I really should have thought of that. The EFT character, "Doris," is based on a former girlfriend. She was a genetic libertarian and she ran away to sea. She got her ship's master license and ferried yachts across the Atlantic. She and her husband have their own boat and sail several months per year. You nailed it.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 12:41:46 pm by SandySandfort »

mellyrn on January 05, 2011, 12:29:29 pm
Quote
if our three "heroes" assault the not-so-polite bar patron, are they the aggressors (ZAP - they have initiated force) or is he the agressor ("Fighting words" - he is clearly inviting them / forcing them to initiate)

They are. 

If you size up the situation and coolly decide to strike the first blow, you are obviously the aggressor.

If you lash out in reaction to someone else making figurative faces at you, you are behaving childishly (isn't "getting a grip on oneself" at least part of growing up?)

Yes, it's very naughty and annoying for Carlos to talk like that, but he is facing adults and the onus is still on them, as adults, to choose their behavior.

(As for cultures in which you're a coward if you decline to fight, why doesn't the one who's demanding the fight man up and say it outright?)

J Thomas on January 05, 2011, 02:08:03 pm
Another place that is as egalitarian as can be is a marina. I've lived on boats most of the last couple years. Like the belt, they are an independent bunch because they know they are it...

Wow, the yachties! You are 100% correct. They are probably the closest earthly analogs to Belters.

My experience with cavers was partly like that. You take in everything you need to get out of the cave. Pretty much everything you do is at your own initiative, and you make sure you can back out of each part before you commit yourself. If you get into trouble you can't get yourself out of, everybody who can help will drop what they're doing and assist in the rescue effort. They will get you or your body out of the cave if they at all can. And you will feel like an utter nurd, but at least a live nurd. Unless you're dead.

But there were very very few blacks among the cavers. I think there may have been fewer black cavers than blind cavers. Every black guy I invited to go caving said he was afraid of snakes. They were also very cautious about meeting rural white landowners and asking permission to go onto their land to go caving. There were some extremely rude libertarians, conservationists, etc. There were extreme taboos. Cavers were forbidden to leave anything behind in caves, or take anything out of caves except other cavers' trash. Most of them did everything in small groups and the people who went in together felt responsible for each other. The closest I saw to a real conflict came when one guy was slower than the rest and whined that they weren't waiting for him enough, and then when rappelling he kicked some rocks loose at the top which fell 120 feet among the people waiting at the bottom, and then he whined some more. Nobody was actually hurt except one pulped shoulder and a rope was cut, but they didn't have much sympathy for him and some hard words were exchanged. He complained to the larger organization that they had treated him bad and everybody was embarrassed.

I think the minor squabbling came because people were not completely independent but did feel responsible for each other. One idiot's bad judgement could cause other people a lot of trouble, so they felt they had the right to interfere some. On a cave dive some of my friends found that the team leader inspected everybody's equipment, and when they had some rust on their reserve tank fittings he refused to let them participate. He was the leader, he was responsible for them, and if their equipment wasn't good enough he wouldn't have them.

spudit on January 05, 2011, 02:09:27 pm
Thanks Sandy.

You shoulda heard the crowd when the municipal marina management started leaning on the tenants about personal stuff involving  their expensive symbols of freedom.  An angry rabble is one thing but.this was an angry Rotary, folks with the mayor's home phone number.

Oops, management said, never mind after all.  

A friend tells a story of her late husband having a long boat side chat with some guy named Frank down in So Cal years ago. Partway through he realized the guy's last name was Sinatra but by then who cared. Afloat, a person's a person no matter how small, the boat.
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