ObscureDragom on October 19, 2009, 10:42:47 pm
By saying that Reggie, by taking a slash at one of Jimmy Carter's more puritanical view points, is like a Rush Limbaugh listener (Read as humorously far right wing to point of error and cliche) is like...  Saying that an Orange by being so far into the yellow spectrum of color will clearly be more into the salty spectrum of taste like pretzels.

Although perhaps that puts too much value on the idea that the right and left spectrum is a valid manner in which to describe politics.  It is generally far to simplistic, mashing things like Moral values into Economic ideals into quantity of government into inward vs outward flows of tax dollars.

Regardless I actually suspect that Rush Limbaugh (at least the radio personality) would agree with Jimmy Carter's puritan leanings, if not his unwillingness to allow those leanings to effect law (read as Roe vs Wade).

Azure Priest on October 20, 2009, 04:48:59 am
Joe King, ugggghhh!!! Will the PUNishment never stop? And that "scratched LP" sound when the music stopped? Classic.

SandySandfort on October 20, 2009, 07:47:08 am
Joe King, ugggghhh!!! Will the PUNishment never stop? And that "scratched LP" sound when the music stopped? Classic.

 ;D

wdg3rd on October 20, 2009, 09:28:00 am

This is true. Every now and then we get a science fiction story that actually starts out with different cultural assumptions and runs with them. These tend not to be very successful. The first example that comes to my mind is _Courtship Rite_ by Donald Kingsbury. Kingsbury made some jarring cultural differences and a lot of people went "Eeeeewwww!" and stopped reading before page 30.

Some folks bailed by the third page, what with the cannibalism and whatnot.  Personally love the book, read it from the point of view of a long-time polyamorist.  (It's a point of view that comes sort of naturally).

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His next novel, _The Moon Goddess and the Son_ was 100% patriotic american fantasy with not one single idea that had not been published before as US military SF.
[/qute]

Stuff and nonsense.  Aside from the fact that Dr, Kingsbury is Canadian, I have found nothing published in "military" SF prior to that novel with anything remotely like the historical perspective on Russian paranoia.

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Hal Clement wrote about aliens that on some levels were pretty alien. But their thinking was centered around concepts of duty and courage in ways that exactly mirrored those of americans in his time.

In his time?  Hal was still writing into the beginning of this century.

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Just as an aside, it looked to me like Jesus's point was not so much that it's bad to think about women, more that it's bad to kill women for being prostitutes. If we're all sinners then maybe we should be cautious about killing people for their sins. I'm not sure what Carter's point was but it sure looked to me like another media-manufactured scandal, at least as much as Cheney shooting his hunting buddy or Bush Jr. using cocaine.

I don't recall the media "manufacturing" the shooting incident.  They did get quite a few laughs out of it.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

wdg3rd on October 20, 2009, 03:05:25 pm
The only Kingsbury novel that I've read is Psychohistorical Crisis, and I wasn't impressed.  I might try Courtship Rite.  The Wikipedia entry for Courtship Rite doesn't say much that I could use to judge.  Did you like it?  What was particularly good?

Myself, I greatly enjoyed Psychohistorical Crisis.  Much better than the source material it was a sequel to.  While I voted for Neil's The American Zone for that year's Prometheus Award, Kingsbury's win neither surprised nor disappointed me,

I loved Courtship Rite (just reread it last year) among other things because of the implication that there's a branch of humanity evolving outside the usual expected parameters.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

ObscureDragom on October 21, 2009, 12:38:48 pm
Looking at that Reggie in that robe...  I just realized this is the stuff that sparks off religions.  Will Reggie suffer from a sudden bout of piety?  Will he Emerge not as Reggie King but Joe King Prophet of the Walrus and savior of the Colonies?

I don't think so, as that wouldn't really fit the story.  Still a funny little path that is there and open.

Brugle on October 21, 2009, 03:54:47 pm
wdg3rd,
Thanks for the recommendation.  While our tastes are not the same (I also preferred The American Zone to Psychohistorical Crisis but don't consider TAZ to be one of L. Neil's better books), your enthusiasm for Courtship Rite is enough for me to try it.  Since neither of the libraries I frequent has it, I'll start checking local bookstores for an inexpensive copy.

SandySandfort on October 21, 2009, 04:01:16 pm
Looking at that Reggie in that robe...  I just realized this is the stuff that sparks off religions.  Will Reggie suffer from a sudden bout of piety?  Will he Emerge not as Reggie King but Joe King Prophet of the Walrus and savior of the Colonies?

I don't think so, as that wouldn't really fit the story.  Still a funny little path that is there and open.

Well, I can say that Reggie's piety (or lack thereof) will probably be explored eventually. Maybe around this time next year, if we can get the timing right.

quadibloc on October 22, 2009, 07:56:13 am
I am still expecting that we will eventually see an external cause for Reggie's experiences. I cannot suspend disbelief far enough to accept that the people of the future are so weak they will experience sensory-deprivation hallucinations simply from being without their electronic toys for a few days.

So we hope he will be able to cope when the opportunity comes, despite being softened up in this manner.

ObscureDragom on October 22, 2009, 11:08:14 am
I am still expecting that we will eventually see an external cause for Reggie's experiences. I cannot suspend disbelief far enough to accept that the people of the future are so weak they will experience sensory-deprivation hallucinations simply from being without their electronic toys for a few days.

So we hope he will be able to cope when the opportunity comes, despite being softened up in this manner.

Not just electronic toys, but also without human contact.  Not so much as a house cat.

Remember that prisoners in solitary are supposed to go kinda loopy in a single day.

Brugle on October 22, 2009, 02:50:31 pm
I am still expecting that we will eventually see an external cause for Reggie's experiences. I cannot suspend disbelief far enough to accept that the people of the future are so weak they will experience sensory-deprivation hallucinations simply from being without their electronic toys for a few days.

So we hope he will be able to cope when the opportunity comes, despite being softened up in this manner.

Not just electronic toys, but also without human contact.  Not so much as a house cat.

Remember that prisoners in solitary are supposed to go kinda loopy in a single day.

I agree with quadibloc.  If the Martian singing doesn't indicate something external, it might be wise to not report hearing it, and I don't see the authors of EFT liking that moral.

Also, I don't see how to make a good story out of those hallucinations, but that just shows why I'm not a story-teller.

As for coping, Reggie's doing that already.

NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on October 22, 2009, 02:58:27 pm
Remember that prisoners in solitary are supposed to go kinda loopy in a single day.

There are a number of significant differences with such cases, however:

  • Prisoners tend to be less mentally healthy, both as a result of selection based on behavior that caused them to become prisoners, and their treatment prior to being placed in solitary.
  • Prisoners in solitary don't generally have access to mental stimulation such as a selection of preferred reading material.
  • Prisoners are less confident of the end of their confinement.
  • Prisoners tend to have fewer "comforts" (bed, lighting, etc.
  • The vast majority of prisoners did not volunteer to be isolated.

While these differences may only change the pace of "loopiness" setting in, they are certainly significant enough to raise doubts that the isolation has impacted Reggie in this short period of time.

Rocketman on October 22, 2009, 07:53:52 pm
I think that it just might not be Reggie's imagination alone that's doing this.  It occurs to me that Reggie may be the victim of a gaslighting.  If for example, someone has placed a temporary LSD like gas in the air or contaminated the food or water in the enclosed atmosphere while at the same time projecting holo-images that could explain what he's been going through.  As to why, I have no idea.  The only thing that occures to me is that someone wants either the land that the outpost sits on or possibly wants whoever is at the outpost so inattentive that another attack by the UW won't be recognized until it's too late to do anything about it.  Probably the latter.   ???

NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on October 22, 2009, 08:34:04 pm
I think that it just might not be Reggie's imagination alone that's doing this.  It occurs to me that Reggie may be the victim of a gaslighting.  If for example, someone has placed a temporary LSD like gas [...]

This, however, does not explain the two folks who verified that they heard the same music.  There would have to be some additional "trigger" to cause that, and such a trigger will quite possibly be the key to determining who/what is responsible for this.

Sean Roach on October 22, 2009, 10:45:29 pm
I've been wondering about the nanites.
We lack this technology, so this is speculation.
Three possibilities present themselves.
The nanites, programmed to interact at some basic level constantly, are acting up due to unexpected system isolation.  They don't even have a ships com, or a suits transponder to ping.  The result could be sensory hallucinations triggered, but not dictated by, the nanites, (except for the music, which could be uniform because it's meta-data of a sort...sort of like listening to an AM radio placed too close to a television.  Light images generate more, and different noise, than do dark images.)
The equipment in the habitat is programmed to interact with a network at some level, and is essentially composed of off the shelf components.  They may be pinging the nanites, which aren't programmed to expect it, and the interaction is bleeding over to the user.
The final possibility that presents itself, with regards to nanites, is that someone figured out to hack them, and are USING them to inject hallucinations. High-tech gaslighting.

 

anything