Azure Priest on September 02, 2009, 12:03:03 am
So it's a SMALL WORLD after all...

quadibloc on September 02, 2009, 12:07:54 am
So it's a SMALL WORLD after all...

But not too small for a heapin' helpin' of his hospitality to fit within.

SandySandfort on September 02, 2009, 07:23:25 am
So it's a SMALL WORLD after all...

Yes...

There is just one moon and one golden sun
And a smile means friendship to everyone.
Though the mountains divide
And the oceans are wide
It's a small small world

Ike on September 02, 2009, 12:45:44 pm
I rather like the way the "Wide, Wide World" show was closed on TV (live, no less) many years ago.  Dave Garroway was the host and at the end of the show, he's be sitting on a stool and he'd lean into the camera and say, "The world stands out on either side, no wider than the heart is wide.  Above the world is stretched the sky, no higher than the soul is high.  Peace."

NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on September 02, 2009, 06:56:09 pm
So it's a SMALL WORLD after all...

Yes...

There is just one moon and one golden sun
And a smile means friendship to everyone.
Though the mountains divide
And the oceans are wide
It's a small small world

Escape from DisneyPlanet(TM)

SandySandfort on September 02, 2009, 07:33:00 pm
So it's a SMALL WORLD after all...

Yes...

There is just one moon and one golden sun
And a smile means friendship to everyone.
Though the mountains divide
And the oceans are wide
It's a small small world

Escape from DisneyPlanet(TM)

I thought that's what we were writing.   ;)

Azure Priest on September 03, 2009, 02:22:15 am
Oh, I do hope they tested the "Steak Fruit" tree to see how it cross pollinates with NON-chimera trees first.  Recently, some company "genetically" altered corn to make it more fruitful, but bred in sterility so that farmers would have to keep coming back to buy more seed (ostensibly to increase the return on investment). Unfortunately, when this corn cross- pollinated with "heirloom" corn, it made that corn sterile too. Corn farmers were none to happy about it.

Edit: I hope Bernie's seeds are not the "test." Not a good way to start a friendship, I'd say.

Sean Roach on September 03, 2009, 09:30:17 am
From what I've heard, pretty much all commercial corn production is hybrid, anyway.  Hybrid seeds do not breed true, so you already have to go back for the same product, or take your chances with whatever the 2nd generation seed might produce.

I have heard of other chimeric traits making it into the wild.  Pesticide tolerance and such.

Granted, I'm not a corn farmer, nor even a corn gardener.

Rocketman on September 03, 2009, 11:08:52 am
Recently, some company "genetically" altered corn to make it more fruitful, but bred in sterility so that farmers would have to keep coming back to buy more seed (ostensibly to increase the return on investment). Unfortunately, when this corn cross- pollinated with "heirloom" corn, it made that corn sterile too. Corn farmers were none to happy about it.

If I remember correctly the press has dubbed them "terminator seeds".  What's really dangerous about all that is if the "heirloom seeds" all become cross pollinated that could mean that corn could conceivable become extinct.  At least that the way that it was explained to me.  >:(

Ike on September 03, 2009, 04:26:04 pm
Is this the same press that has been beating the drum for global warming?  For the "hole" in the ozone layer?  For the banning of DDT?  Sorry; that last was probably before you remember things, but the same point.  Most journalists these days are hacks.  Ignorant of anything that resembles logic or reason or science, they write what they "feel", not what the facts are.

Corn has been hybridized for at least 30 years now, to the point where, about twenty or more years ago, you bought seed to plant in order to raise the seed to plant for the crop you marketed.  This is the source of that urban legend you heard about the seed companies "deliberately making the seed sterile"; they weren't sterile, just didn't produce an edible variety, for precisely the fears you all are expressing.  All of the cerals and all of the vegatables raised for human food are gene-engineered and have been since agriculture started, only the techniques are now more technical, direct and efficient.  You see, they all began as not very high-yield varieties of - for example - grass, that produced seed pods humans can eat.  So, the farmers started breeding varieties that had increased resistance to cold, drought, bugs, blights, etc.  Then, when agronomy actually became a science, hybrids were "made" by trial and error cross-breeding for observable traits, just as has been done with farm stock for millennia.  Only recently has it become possible to actually "reach" into the plant's genes and alter them directly for desireable traits.  You have to ask yourself:  why would someone - scientist or plain old farmer - who is breeding up more useful stocks of plants and animals not take the care to be sure that what they've made isn't - to use modern Luddite word - "frankenfoods"?  Or that if all the varieties cross pollinated that the species would become extinct or, worse, useless as food?  Do you think any seed company that did that would get much repeat business?  Isn't that a good reason to encourage more competition in the seed market, rather than more government, which usually leads to much less competition?  Nobody said that, yet, but that is the usual sequel to complaints about real or imaginary "market failures".

SandySandfort on September 03, 2009, 06:34:22 pm
Oh, I do hope they tested the "Steak Fruit" tree to see how it cross pollinates with NON-chimera trees first.  Recently, some company "genetically" altered corn to make it more fruitful, but bred in sterility so that farmers would have to keep coming back to buy more seed (ostensibly to increase the return on investment). Unfortunately, when this corn cross- pollinated with "heirloom" corn, it made that corn sterile too. Corn farmers were none to happy about it.

Edit: I hope Bernie's seeds are not the "test." Not a good way to start a friendship, I'd say.


I can believe corn (even "sterile" corn) might-cross pollinate with legacy corn, but steak fruit trees would cross-pollinate with...? Anyway, Tobi wants to save ten billion lives. He would have his people take the time and work to do it right. You can do that sort of thing if you are the richest man in the known universe.

Rocketman on September 04, 2009, 02:14:44 pm
Ike:  I'm 57 and I very well remember DDT.  But your absolutely right.  There is so much BS out there when it comes to reporters reporting on technical things among others that no one, including me should assume anything at face value written by them.  Interesting story, back in 1970 or 71, I had the opportunity to speak for about 10 minutes to a well known journalist from Europe.  I told him that I was considering either going into journalism or into engineering and asked his opinion.  To my suprise he advised me to go into engineering.  As near as I can remember it he told me that the top American newspeople were incredibly biased, underworked for what their jobs were and vastly over paid and that if they came to a european nation that they wouldn't be able to cut it and would be sent packing.  Only their name recognition gives them any kind of clout and respect which really isn't earned.  Never forgot that.

Azure Priest on September 07, 2009, 09:09:29 pm
Ike, I put absoutely ZERO faith in the global warming stories, as they are rife with fraud. Even AL GORE, the high priest, has admitted as much on receiving the Nobel Prize. As part of his acceptance speech, speaking about the movie which got him the prize, he actually said "I deliberately misrepre-exagerrated [sic] the facts because this issue is so important" to a standing ovation. That being said, I first heard about the cross-polinating story from the FARMER's almanac which is in no way afiliated with the "mainstream" press which has of its own admission become a propaganda mill for the DNC specifically, the extreme left wing of said party.

Ike on September 10, 2009, 10:13:31 am
Azure Priest:  While I agree that the probability of the Farmer's Almanac folks being left-wing shills or useful idiots, it is not beyond the realm of reason to believe that they may be mistaken, even over a factual matter.  There has been such a barrage of lies and propaganda concerning "organic" foods, genetic engineering, etc that it's fairly easy to confuse fact with fiction.  For instance, to quote one of John Ringo's books, "What do you suppose they use to fertilize the crops in organic farms?  Sh*t."  When you realize that is true, then those incidents of e.coli contamination becomes less mysterious, doesn't it?  So just how is "organic" farming better than the regular commercial farming, which continues to produce more food with fewer acres, thereby allowing more forest and wetlands to be returned to something resembling their natural states?  Remember, in spite of all the alarmist propaganda, fewer people die each year from any kind of chemical contamination of the food supply, water or air than die from food alergies.  Also, in spite of all the propaganda over the last 40+ years since Silent Spring there is still a lack of scientific or medical evidence that any environmental chemicals - natural or artificial - cause cancer, apart from industrial-strength long-term exposures to blue asbestos and benzene.  Read the epidemiological studies claiming to prove a causal relationship and remember as you read that the chap who invented the methods said that if the correlation is below 3.0, there is no relationship.  FYI, that number for cigarette smoking - that's primary smoke - is about 34; for secondary and tertiary, it's 1.20 or less.  Our world at least in the U.S., is cleaner, healthier and better all around than it was in my childhood.

Sean Roach on September 10, 2009, 02:14:57 pm
Yes.  "The Last Centurions" is a very good book.
According to the author, it has something in it to upset everyone.