Rocketman on August 30, 2009, 02:49:20 am
Sandy:  You show Burt and Ernie being presented with new HKS semi-autos.  I didn't remember the designation so I just went to the H&K website and it's not listed.  Are the guns from Heckler Koch and they just haven't been invented yet?  The only HKS that I'm familar with are revolver speed loaders for my Smith and Wesson's.  ???

Sean Roach on August 30, 2009, 06:59:54 am
I thought it meant HKs.  HK, plural.

SandySandfort on August 30, 2009, 09:29:15 am
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I thought it meant HKs.  HK, plural.

Yes, HK P7 M8 or M13. I have one of each. The finest weapons I have ever owned. It points like a dream, has little recoil and its squeeze cocker makes it inherently safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_P7

Rocketman on September 01, 2009, 09:44:59 pm
Sandy:  I admittedly don't have experience with either one of the HK's.  But if I can recommend something to you try the ParaOrdinance LDA's.  I've been shooting for about 50 years now and have tried a number of firearms including Colts, Smith and Wessons, Auto Ordinance, Glocks, Sigs, Brownings, Savage and even Radom handguns and I have to say that the trigger pull is so perfect on the LDA that if I could only own one handgun the rest of my life that would be it.  ;D

SandySandfort on September 02, 2009, 07:18:06 am
Sandy:  I admittedly don't have experience with either one of the HK's.  But if I can recommend something to you try the ParaOrdinance LDA's.  I've been shooting for about 50 years now and have tried a number of firearms including Colts, Smith and Wessons, Auto Ordinance, Glocks, Sigs, Brownings, Savage and even Radom handguns and I have to say that the trigger pull is so perfect on the LDA that if I could only own one handgun the rest of my life that would be it.  ;D

Thanks. I shall definitely look into it.

Rocketman on September 05, 2009, 08:54:10 am
Sandy:  When you do, let me know what you think.  ;D

SandySandfort on September 05, 2009, 04:55:35 pm
Sandy:  When you do, let me know what you think.  ;D

From what I read, it's still a big clunky 1911; just one with a special trigger. I would love to fire one, but I doubt the experience matches the pure ergonometric beauty of the HK P7s.

Rocketman on September 06, 2009, 07:29:10 pm
Sandy:  I'm not even going to start the 9mm vs. the 45acp debate.  That's been done to death.  By the way the LDA comes in 9mm as well as .40 if that's your forte.  The LDA trigger is very long and smooth and breaks like a piece of glass.  I've been told that factory is set at about 5 1/2 lbs, but it seems to be less to me, on the order of 4 lbs.  If your running a high speed drill simulating multiple hostile targets it is the best possible trigger to shoot accurately and quickly by minimalizing trigger jerk.  In a real combat situation studies have shown that not only do you develop tunnel vision but your hand coordination is markedly less and trigger jerk can be a real problem.  Back twenty so years ago when a took two combat pistol courses we had a simulated bank robbery where I and the other students were standing in line and two bank robbers came into the bank behind us and attempted to rob it.  Even knowing that it was a simulation and not a real robbery I clearly noticed that I was developing tunnel vision from the incident.  My advice is to borrow or rent an LDA, then go out and run a simulation multi-target drill your HK against the LDA.  You might be surprised.

terry_freeman on September 07, 2009, 06:46:25 pm
A friend lent me a paraordnance one day. It's not just "a special trigger"; it is one damn fine pistol. I picked it up, loaded a clip, and immediately fired a group of 10 overlapping shots, about 1" spread at 7 yards - considerably better than my usual. The ergonomics work, at least for me. YMMV -- there is no "one gun fits all."

dough560 on September 07, 2009, 10:13:31 pm
Shot a P8 while serving in Germany.   Easy gun to shoot accurately.  One guy I competed against used a custom built 6" long slide.  He regularly and with great precision, kicked my rear.  On the down side, I remember hearing about several accidental police shootings.  Seems the cops would stress during an incident, not realize they had cocked the pistol by squeezing it and accidentally shot several surrendering suspects.  The offending agencies either got rid of the HKs or corrected their training programs.  The P13 is a wide-bodied variant.
As for a really nice trigger out of the box, the Para-Ord LDA is hard to beat.  Some of those I've handled exhibited some stacking at the end of the trigger stroke, but could easily achieve a surprise break for the shot.  I also handled one Cylinder and Slide worked over.  No stacking.  Every shot was a surprise break.  Factory or Custom each gun has been accurate.

Rocketman on September 09, 2009, 03:15:15 am
The LDA seems to me to be the perfect trigger, I didn't notice any stacking at all.  Like I said, it broke like a piece of glass at what felt to me like about four pounds.  I love the 45acp cartridge and have been shooting the 1911A1 and it's offspring for nearly 30 years.  I've shot customized 1911's and double action Smith & Wesson's set up by top armorers and even customized the trigger pull on those guns is not quite as good as a STOCK LDA.  That's really saying something.  Reliability seems to me to be equal or close to it with the standard 1911A1.  If I were a young pup again and going into harms way it would be a toss up between the LDA and the Glock 21.  Why the Glock?  The Glock design I think can take greater abuse than the 1911A1 and in combat that's pretty important.  But when it comes to the trigger it's no contest.

dough560 on September 12, 2009, 07:33:45 pm
I've seen 1911's survive stuff I wouldn't have believed possible.  If my information is correct, the military took their last delivery of 1911's in 1947.  They survived rebuild after rebuild and still shooting.  Somehow I don't see the Glocks lasting that long.  I've personally put enough rounds through a 1911 to exceed the life expectancy of a Glock of by a wide margin.  Still got it and still shooting.   ;)

A LDA Tac 4 Para is on my wish list.  Plan to build it into a 5" carry-comp.  My original P13 will be the backup.

Scott on September 14, 2009, 01:25:35 am
I own a Para-Ord 14*45, the single-action version. Very nice gun, very tight, very accurate at the bench.

But the funny thing is, when I'm shooting while standing, I'm more accurate out to 50 yards with my compact EAA (Tanfoglio) Witness (.40). It has a 3.25-inch barrel, holds 10 rounds in the magazine. Absolutely my favorite gun, the one I keep with me most of the time. I think it's something about the grip design.

I hear great things about HK guns, except that on the occasion when stuff breaks, it's hard to get replacement parts.

Rocketman on September 14, 2009, 09:45:35 am
Every "gun nut"  has their favorite gun that they love simply because it shoots so well for them.  I remember the first time I tried out a 6" Smith and Wesson model 17.  The very first time that I fired it at 50 feet I shot a six shot group that could not quite be covered by a nickel.  I went home that day, picked up my checkbook and purchased a blued model identical to the chrome one that I had just shot.  Mounted a 1X scope on it for squirrels.  That's one gun that I'll keep till I die.   ;D

Rocketman on September 16, 2009, 02:49:21 pm
I've seen 1911's survive stuff I wouldn't have believed possible.  If my information is correct, the military took their last delivery of 1911's in 1947.  They survived rebuild after rebuild and still shooting.  Somehow I don't see the Glocks lasting that long.  I've personally put enough rounds through a 1911 to exceed the life expectancy of a Glock of by a wide margin.  Still got it and still shooting.   ;)

A LDA Tac 4 Para is on my wish list.  Plan to build it into a 5" carry-comp.  My original P13 will be the backup.
 There are fewer parts to break on a Glock.  Difference is about 35 to about 49 for the stock model 70 series.  Police all over the U.S. have gone to the Glock because of the reliability factor, from the salt water problem of the Miami PD to the extreme cold of the Anchorage PD.  Torture tests were run about 20 years ago by gun writer Chuck Taylor when the Glock was just introduced into the U.S. and it pretty much came in first in every catagory.  Lastly, it was designed from the get go to work with limited cleaning or maintainance.  I don't have reliability problems with my Colt 1911A1, but that's because I keep all of my guns clean and well oiled and always have, but in combat you very well may not have the time to do so and it might have fallen into a mud pit, dropped during a dust storm or fallen into salt water.  Under those conditions I would prefer carrying the Glock.
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