Leviathan on March 23, 2009, 08:08:43 am
You do realize that you are insulting every member of the all volunteer United States military, implying that they somehow have IQs below zero? No one has been shoved into a foxhole at gunpoint in the United States since the Vietnam War ended.

You realize that many of the regulations haven't really been modified since the days of conscription, right?  Once you sign on the dotted line to "defend the nation", they have the authority at present to use quite a bit of force to coerce you onto the battlefield.  Often they may offer you a "simple" dishonorable discharge as part of the court martial, but you'd effectively be signing away all the contracted benefits just because you don't believe in shooting people who didn't start the fight.

Not that all of them are in that situation.

Wait, roads and schools lead to genocide? According to the United Nations:
Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

How in God's name are roads or schools doing any of that?

Having a government supply those things leads to a government that takes over a lot more.  If you want it to do those things, there is no way to prevent it from genociding.  And usually it eventually does those things.  The US isn't immune from this effect.  And even if it didn't actively annihilate entire demographics, even the passive effects cause massive death and poverty.

I haven't seen any evidence that your libertarian philosophy is catching on. In the last election, more people voted for the ridiculously statist Ralph Nader than voted for the Libertarian candidate. Meanwhile, Barrack "Lenin" Obama is raising Government spending to new heights.

The Libertarian Party candidate was not a libertarian.  Bob Barr is an establishment guy.  And much of the remaining LP leadership isn't acting particularly libertarian, either.

SandySandfort on March 23, 2009, 09:08:10 am
Random question: Does Guy have any friends or acquaintances serving in the UW Navy or Marine Corps who might be present at the impending battle of Ceres?

Alas, only one way to find out (two, if you count bribing the author).

wdg3rd on March 23, 2009, 09:23:18 pm
Quote from: ward
Anybody with an IQ above zero tries to, but politicians and other "elites" keep shoving as many (of other people's) kids as they can into them.  At gunpoint, to face other kids' gunpoints.
You do realize that you are insulting every member of the all volunteer United States military, implying that they somehow have IQs below zero? No one has been shoved into a foxhole at gunpoint in the United States since the Vietnam War ended.

In fact, I was in the USAF when the Vietnam War ended.  I wasn't drafted.  (I was starving).  I have two nephews in southwest Asia right now, who should have been released several years ago except that "retention" of members of the National Guard and the Reserves is somehow easier than keeping regular military past schedule.  Note that it is still mandatory to register for conscription or else go to prison.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Rocketman on March 24, 2009, 10:12:38 am

The Libertarian Party candidate was not a libertarian.  Bob Barr is an establishment guy.  And much of the remaining LP leadership isn't acting particularly libertarian, either.

This is one area where you and I are in complete agreement.  Barr and Wayne Allen Root are just slightly libertarian republicans who conned the LP leadership into supporting them with promises of huge vote totals and millions in campaign contributions that never materialized.  This sets the LP back about 25 years and effectively destroys any chance that the LP has of being a force in the next presidential election when everything is on the line and not having a true libertarian like Cristina Smith or Dr. Mary Ruward when the average person is looking for an alternate to big government socialism that will eventually destroy the country.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:15:23 am by Rocketman »

deadasdisco on March 24, 2009, 12:31:37 pm
So I've been away from the Interwebs for a couple days and just read Monday's comic.  Not a good sign.  We all know the rules by now.  In a dramatic situation, the newly introduced gosh-darn-wholesome folk might as well put on a vintage Original-Series red jersey with an Enterprise patch on it.  Its like the cop who's two days from retirement or the fighter pilot with the pictures of wife and kids.  Sorry, Little Bobby Rose (which, is it just me or does that sound like an old fifties rock-a-billy singer?  Hey, Sandy, ya let the kid live, he might have a great music career ahead of him...), but your number is up....

Sean Roach on March 24, 2009, 03:01:31 pm
Oh, I don't know.
He might also be used as an example of how even children have a vested interest in what goes on around them.

SandySandfort on March 24, 2009, 07:57:58 pm
So I've been away from the Interwebs for a couple days and just read Monday's comic.  Not a good sign.  We all know the rules by now.  In a dramatic situation, the newly introduced gosh-darn-wholesome folk might as well put on a vintage Original-Series red jersey with an Enterprise patch on it.  Its like the cop who's two days from retirement or the fighter pilot with the pictures of wife and kids. 

What, you never heard of foreshadowing? You know, this is the way writing works. After that, it's all in the execution.

Sorry, Little Bobby Rose (which, is it just me or does that sound like an old fifties rock-a-billy singer? 

Yup, it's just you.  ;D

Hey, Sandy, ya let the kid live, he might have a great music career ahead of him...), but your number is up....

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but hang in there, you might just enjoy yourself in spite of your crusty cynicism.

ClaudiusPtolemy on March 25, 2009, 08:17:34 am
Why would Reginald offer himself as a sacrifice? It certainly won't benefit him, and it's unlikely to benefit the people of Ceres. Or is he just bluffing?

SandySandfort on March 25, 2009, 10:35:44 am
Why would Reginald offer himself as a sacrifice? It certainly won't benefit him, and it's unlikely to benefit the people of Ceres. Or is he just bluffing?

Your home and everyone you hold dear is threatened with annihilation. There is no government so the ONLY demand you can comply with is to turn yourself in the hope you can overt the attack. What would you do?

Rocketman on March 25, 2009, 12:44:16 pm
The problem with that Claudius Ptolemy is that what your saying is totally logical.  Admiral Harris isn't interested in logic for logic's sake.  He has the force, or at least he believes he has until such time as his invasion is repulsed and he goes by the theorem that "might makes right".  Reggie might as well be speaking Ancient Egyptian to him for all the good that it's going to do attempting to defuse the situation.  The only way that Harris will listen to reason is if his force is defeated.  The inhabitants of Ceres had either better fight or surrender unconditionally.  That's really their only two choices.

Leviathan on March 25, 2009, 10:23:58 pm
Hey, that's not cynicism...  We're busy being shat upon by politicians.  The crust is, umm, said waste.

But I expect to enjoy the story or I shall demand my money back!  Luckily for you, in the event that happens you've been giving us the story for free, so you'll just have to worry about the sales of the printed version  ;D

ptolemy,
I do believe the emotion in question is "love".  He's attempting to sacrifice himself to save everyone he cares about.  I have said that I would be willing to fire the first shot in a conflict to preserve one freedom, knowing that the conflict could end with the deaths of most of the planet.  I would lay my own life down to purchase that freedom.  Because I really do care that much for people.  I would also lay down my life to save even strangers.  Reggie?  He has friends and loved ones, not just strangers, that he is hoping he can save.  Fellow Sovereigns.  Brothers and sisters in spirit if not blood.  Innocents that had nothing to do with this conflict that Harris is holding hostage.  The aforementioned Rose Family, for instance.  People who didn't try anything as wonderfully marvelous as trying to hoodwink an oppressive regime, but are nevertheless going to suffer the consequences.

Also, lying his ass off didn't protect Ceres.  "Well, that didn't work.  Let's see if the truth does."

Rocketman on March 26, 2009, 09:41:09 am
Leviathan:  Given that Reggie already knows, as shown in today's saga, that Harris is a murdering butcher, Reggie should realize that talking to him is not going to change anything.  In fact telling him the truth is not a good idea because if he does believe Reggie's story he may conclude that the only solution is to kill everyone and start over with all new colonists on Ceres.

Leviathan on March 26, 2009, 11:11:59 am
He's letting Harris know the demands are impossible.  He can't gain the capitulation of Ceres because he isn't their king.  If Harris were to accept the impossibility of most of the demands, and accept Reggie's surrender, it might save them the hell that has just been brought down upon their heads.  Harris, unlike the Cerereans, is under orders.  As such, he can't really unilaterally decide on genocide.  Or, theoretically he can't.  Any attempt to preserve life.

And at least this way they're giving Harris a chance to be reasonable.

Rocketman on March 29, 2009, 01:50:51 pm
He's letting Harris know the demands are impossible.  He can't gain the capitulation of Ceres because he isn't their king.  If Harris were to accept the impossibility of most of the demands, and accept Reggie's surrender, it might save them the hell that has just been brought down upon their heads.  Harris, unlike the Cerereans, is under orders.  As such, he can't really unilaterally decide on genocide.  Or, theoretically he can't.  Any attempt to preserve life.

And at least this way they're giving Harris a chance to be reasonable.
Yes Leviathan.  Harris's demands are impossible.  Reggie can't surrender for the Ceres inhabitants because he doesn't have the "authority".  But did you think about the next step?  Let's say that Reggie tells Harris that he is indeed the King and that he has ordered his people to surrender unconditionally (the only surrender that Harris is likely to accept).  If he does that then Harris will have him taken aboard his vessel and kept under close guard and then Harris will start making demands.  First all the people's guns, then all the gold and silver.  At that point most if not all of the Cerereans will begin rebelling and Reggie will likely be killed, gaining nothing.  As far as genocide, it doesn't have to be total.  If Harris kills off say half the population of Ceres the other half may decide that living under a oligarchy back on Earth at least means living.  I don't remember anything in Harris's orders that limited his options concerning genocide.  Harris could then have new inhabitants shuttled in from Earth.  Inhabitants that in Harris's mind "know their place".  Likely with "political education" officers permanently assigned to make sure that in the future that no inhabitants get any crazy ideas of ever rebelling again.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 01:54:24 pm by Rocketman »

Leviathan on March 29, 2009, 11:19:31 pm
Well, heh, you see, there's a small issue with most such possibilities.  The UWRS wants to loot Ceres and the belt.  It's clear that they have a timetable for the looting, missing it will mean they'll be bankrupt and the reign of the UW is pretty much at its end.  In order for the looting to succeed, they can't kill most of Ceres.  They have to have someone there to tax.  And it would cost more to ship a population up from planetside to be looted than it would to even pay the "demands" that were the counter-proposal to the treaty of mutual ignorance.  Plus they wouldn't be "rich" enough to be looted for decades, if ever thanks to UW regulation getting in the way of them ever getting rich.  Not that the UW necessarily acknowledges that last fact.  But even they can't be stupid enough to believe they'll get milk by beating the cow half to death.

Besides, while extinction events are an empty threat, the fact is the Cerereans aren't defenseless.  And a people who are accustomed to defending themselves are about to be poked.  Hard.  Here's one possibility.  That unmanned drone packed quite a punch hitting the FSM.  I wonder how big a punch a similar unit would pack hitting the Conqueror?  Not to mention mining lasers and such.

Though I suspect we're about to see a fictional analog of that one experiment, with the authority figure who tells the subject of the experiment to electrocute somebody in another room.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:22:49 pm by Leviathan »

 

anything