cyberbard on February 05, 2009, 10:54:08 am
It's a clever plan, but Reggie is still taking a very big risk.  The trouble with psychological warfare is that you don't know which way your quarry is going to snap.  Guy may eventually "get the joke," and some day he and Reggie can get drunk and joke about it.  But it's also possible that this will stir Guy's Gallic pride into a fury, and he'll go on some kind of vengeance kick.   I could see Guy using the old cliche of challenging Reginald to a duel.  What would make that interesting is if Guy turns out to actually be very good with a handgun or foil.  (The result of sport shooting or fencing lessons in his youth.)

I think the most likely outcome, however, is that Guy will return to Ceres with his luggage, calm as always.  But when Reggie comes to greet him... Reggie suddenly finds himself hitting the opposite wall, and in need of some extensive dental work.  I'm not sure Reggie wouldn't deserve it.  Of course, Reggie would probably consider that proof of victory!

It remains to be seen.

Footnote: If Guy did challenge Reginald to a duel, that would mean Guy isn't really a cowboy, but a swashbuckler.
 :D
I'm sure swashbucklers can fit into Ceres society too, though.

Rocketman on February 05, 2009, 01:56:12 pm
Judging from what I seen so far I doubt that Guy has any experience at either shooting or fencing.  Remember how shocked he was when he saw Fiona with a handgun on her hip or how he was somehow please with himself for not knowing anything about contact sports?  Besides my guess would be that anything that involved potential combat tactics such as those would more than likely be outlawed back on Earth.  The last thing that the UW would want is people learning how to defend themselves without government "help".

Leviathan on February 06, 2009, 02:20:56 am
Given the fact that many contact sports aren't severely restricted in the USSA, and the limited usefulness of swordplay in a world of firearms, I'd suspect foil fencing could survive the tactical wipeout effect.  What it can't survive with certainty is the nanny statism demanding to keep you safe from even yourself.  Though I'm not sure from context whether contact sports have been outlawed or just the likely subject of propaganda campaigns.

Personally, I don't like watching sports.  It's got very little engagement value for me, sorry.  Playing?  Might be a different matter, but my physical problems make participation virtually impossible.  At least under Earthly gravity, and it might be prohibitively problematic in any situation.  Connective tissue is what prevents you from turning into a human beanbag chair, after all.  Mine might as well have been built by government contract.  I'd probably kick ass at wrestling, though.  It's almost impossible to joint lock me.

And challenging Reggie to a duel would seem to be severely out of character for Guy, unless he goes stark raving mad back on Terra.  He's a very...  "civilized" sort of fellow.  Wants to talk it out, reason with you, apply penalties that don't seem so bloody or violent until you decide not to abide by them.  And then it's your fault, the blood and agony and possibly death, for not complying.  Not his, and not anyone acting on his behalf.  It's the mentality of the legislator.  The kind of person who can actually suggest you impose a fine on the parents of the children whose only crime was having a bit of a laugh at someone else's expense.  The fact that weapons regulations on Terra are described so far as just shy of horrifying ban, unless you're a soldier or other enforcer, means that he likely hasn't done more than see a weapon in some thug's holster before coming to ceres.  At least since the farming days, where there'd have been a decent chance of a rifle or shotgun even in France.

wdg3rd on February 07, 2009, 05:15:13 am
[quote  link=topic=293.msg2861#msg2861 date=1233908456]
Given the fact that many contact sports aren't severely restricted in the USSA, and the limited usefulness of swordplay in a world of firearms, I'd suspect foil fencing could survive the tactical wipeout effect.  What it can't survive with certainty is the nanny statism demanding to keep you safe from even yourself.  Though I'm not sure from context whether contact sports have been outlawed or just the likely subject of propaganda campaigns.[/quote]

During the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles, exactly one fencing _point_ was broadcast, the next day, as an American had won a silver the previous day.  Not a round, not a bout, just a point was shown.

Quote from: Leviathan
[Personally, I don't like watching sports.  It's got very little engagement value for me, sorry.  Playing?  Might be a different matter, but my physical problems make participation virtually impossible.  At least under Earthly gravity, and it might be prohibitively problematic in any situation.  Connective tissue is what prevents you from turning into a human beanbag chair, after all.  Mine might as well have been built by government contract.  I'd probably kick ass at wrestling, though.  It's almost impossible to joint lock me.

I don't play in contact sports any more (football, rather unwillingly, in high school) fencing in community college after the USAF discharge was fun, but not a long term thing.

Quote
And challenging Reggie to a duel would seem to be severely out of character for Guy, unless he goes stark raving mad back on Terra.  He's a very...  "civilized" sort of fellow.  Wants to talk it out, reason with you, apply penalties that don't seem so bloody or violent until you decide not to abide by them.  And then it's your fault, the blood and agony and possibly death, for not complying.  Not his, and not anyone acting on his behalf.  It's the mentality of the legislator.  The kind of person who can actually suggest you impose a fine on the parents of the children whose only crime was having a bit of a laugh at someone else's expense.  The fact that weapons regulations on Terra are described so far as just shy of horrifying ban, unless you're a soldier or other enforcer, means that he likely hasn't done more than see a weapon in some thug's holster before coming to ceres.  At least since the farming days, where there'd have been a decent chance of a rifle or shotgun even in France.

Fencing can be for fun.  And dueling can sometimes be to the death.  The Terraist government might call those acts crimes.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 05:27:17 am by wdg3rd »
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Rocketman on February 07, 2009, 03:52:20 pm
One point?  That's just sad.  :(  I know that it's impossible to cover everyone of the events totally but that just shows a lack of respect to the individuals that spent years and years training to make the Olympic American fencing team by someone in the producers booth who obviously hated the entire idea of fencing.

Leviathan on February 08, 2009, 07:35:24 am
I will say it's a bit unfair to the participants if the guy who's supposed to be showcasing it doesn't exactly approve of the content.  Likely to result in biased airtime.  On the other hand, a lot of racing fans seem to act like it's the cars going around in circles that's the entertainment value of things like nascar.  It's the crashes!  Admit it so they can just start doing that and dispense with the hours of tedious circling the track  ::)

KBCraig on February 09, 2009, 02:39:02 am

Rocketman on February 10, 2009, 09:55:44 am
[quote  link=topic=293.msg2861#msg2861 date=1233908456]
Given the fact that many contact sports aren't severely restricted in the USSA, and the limited usefulness of swordplay in a world of firearms, I'd suspect foil fencing could survive the tactical wipeout effect. 
I'm going to have to disagree with that.  The way that the average socialist/ liberal/ progressive mind thinks is that anything that can be used to defend yourself should be outlawed.  Look what's going on in "great" (ha ha ha  :D snort) Briton nowadays.  They outlawed firearms for the most part so naturally the crime rate soared.  Then they outlawed swords and long knives.  Next I supposed it will be screwdrivers and hammers and ultimately I suppose it will be anything that could be used as a club.  By the way how do you know that "Given the fact that many contact sports aren't severely restricted in the USSA"?  If GOD forbid I lived in a place that outlawed firearms, I sure would feel alot better at night if I had a razor sharp katana next to my bed at night.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 09:59:09 am by Rocketman »

Leviathan on February 11, 2009, 01:49:39 pm
Just don't sharpen the blade into having the typical razor shape, it defeats the design of the Katana.  The afaik slightly convex edge keeps it from sticking in the meat, allowing the blade to penetrate further when swinging.

Anyway, foil fencing isn't "long knives".  It's a bit more than using two car antennas to engage in ritualized, artificial, points-driven competition.  Wiping out the ability of defense would have very little relation to sport fencing, was my point.  It's the ultra-safety czar.  The foils are already de-edged afaik, and the safety czars would probably require that they be permanently capped.  And even then...  But if football, baseball, etc. have survived, fencing may also.  Just not posessing the weapon itself that fencing is based on.

Actually, part of the problem in England and many parts of the USSA is the self defense laws.  It's borderline illegal to defend yourself because you have to be directly proportional to your attacker.  If he or she is unarmed but just physically menacing, your limit is unarmed combat.  If they have a weapon, at least in England, your limit is how much of a weapon they have.  So even before the gun ban, you couldn't up a knife fight into a gun fight.  Things like that.  The end result is that nobody really has the ability to engage in self defense within the framework of the law.  So if anybody is going around with a weapon, they're not using it defensively.  "There's no good reason for somebody to have one, even if they're defending themselves it's probably illegal anyway!"  This justifies banning the weapon to the public, rather than removing the restriction on defense.  But, making self defense borderline illegal pretty well came first.  Trying to present the image that you don't need to defend yourself, the friendly neighborhood policeman will do it for you, is what lets people sleep at night when the means are removed and the act itself is almost banned.

 

anything