Who has, or has read, 'TPB' ?

Yes, I have read it.
I'm reading it.
well...I have it!
Haven't read it.
wdg3rd on July 03, 2007, 12:46:14 pm
I never said that we would change overnight.  This unholy mess wasn't created in just a few years and my guess is that we (if we ever do) will take at least as long to fix it as we took to create the problem.  The first thing that should happen in my belief is that the "Patriot" Act and the military commissions act should be ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court.   If we Americans can't even accomplish that I don't have any hope at all for America.  :'(

Those acts are unconstitutional and I don't give a rat's ass what the Nine Transvestites have to say about the matter.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Rocketman on July 03, 2007, 07:24:19 pm
I totally agree with you wdg3rd about them being unconstitutional.  The question is however is the supposed independent judicial branch going to live up to it's constitutional responsibilities and tell the executive branch that goes right back to the early days of the Nazi tyranny and impeachment procedings will be started unless they back the F**K OFF or are they going to bend over and grab their ankles and afterwards kiss Bush's feet.  My opinion is probably the latter.   >:(

Leviathan on July 04, 2007, 08:09:01 am
Something to note about whether things like the Supreme Court consider something constitutional or not would be just how much they've been ruling, for the past century and a half, in accord with actual constitutional limits.  I have held the opinion for awhile now that the constitution both grants too much power to the federal government, and allows even more excess to the state and local governments.  However, even this wasn't enough for our glorious leaders.  As lovely as it sounds to call the constitution a "living document", practically what it means is that the justices and legislators can say the constitution means anything they want.  They've destroyed state sovereignty, decided the commerce clause allows them to control anything at all because everything potentially impacts interstate trade, and with the increases in taxation granted by the fourteenth amendment have the finances they stole through taxation woven back through the programs of the various and sundry states which allows them both to bribe the states into compliance (with the funds they took from the states in taxes in the first place) and claim state programs are bound by federal limitations and empowered by federal powers.  Oh, and it took a particularly egregious gun ban (the DC gun ban) that required even collectors to have their guns disabled or at least partially disassembled at all times for the supreme court to rule a gun ban as unconstitutional despite how bloody clear the second amendment is and how much federal law infringes it and how incredibly much further state laws infringe it.  "Oh, you still have the right to keep and bear arms.  Just we'll decide when, how, and which ones for you.  Now run along and play!"

Oh, yeah.  And the courts also ruled that international treaty overrides constitution and federal law, allowing them to simply ignore it at will.  While a treaty should at the least be forced to abide by constitutional limits.  If the government agrees to a treaty that regulates something it doesn't have the power to, it shouldn't have the ability to uphold that treaty.  It would be like the US making a treaty with France that granted each country half of Portugal.  But do they strike down a treaty that grants concessions they haven't the authority to grant?  Oh no.  The courts ruled that the treaty power trumps all, because it would make it impossible for them to manage the domestic affairs they do if it were subjected to any limitations whatsoever.

In short?  I have no faith in these bastahds to abide by the constitution.  Much less abide by what a libertarian would consider their natural rights. 

I've been trying to get a more active response to these crimes going, the kind that hopefully involves a lot of walls and a lot of blindfolds for those responsible.  But so far no takers.  Those few who would be willing are cowed by the superior arms of, well, the US armed forces.  Most believe things aren't "that bad" yet.  And the remainder still believe in the "democratic process".  The process of democracy has been described before as two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.  I like this comment much, much better (and sorry if it's considered profane).  As such, I have no faith in it, either, to resolve things.  And sorry for the page-long dissertation, I just am rather >:( annoyed by both what has happened and by the lies school taught about such things.

Oh, and in case anybody here hasn't heard of him, the last hope for even constitutional limits is running for president.  His name is Ron Paul, and you should look into his campaign and try to support it if you want to take advantage of the last non-revolutionary option available to us.  I'll otherwise avoid spamming about the campaign.  It just seemed to fit the topic.

Edit: Oh, yeah.  I put together a torrent of the declaration of independence, articles of confederation, constitution, bill of rights, and remaining amendments in both textual and high-resolution image formats.  I'm also working on assembling a "library" of founders' documents from various internet sources.  This is a link from pirate bay for the torrent file of the basic historical documents package.  I also have it on conspiracycentral.net's tracker, but you have to sign up for their tracker in order to download it from there.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2007, 08:40:51 am by Leviathan »

Rocketman on July 05, 2007, 08:36:57 am
I too am a big supporter of Ron Paul, but in all honesty I don't see him winning the Republican nomination for President.  My opinion is that even if he "wins" the overlords are going to make sure that he "doesn't win".  You can see that even now.  Republican county chairman are telling Paul that they will support the other Republican candidates for President but not him.  My hope is that the Libertarian Party will hold a "Draft Paul" movement so he can run as the Libertarian Presidential candidate.  This would then have the effect as showing that the Republicans are just as bought and paid for and generally socialistic as the Democracts and give instant credibility to the Libertarian Party which up to now has had a big problem in that area.  My opinion is that if Paul can get into the televised presidential debates he will do very, very well and while he probably won't win the presidency it will clear the way for the Libertarian Party to become the third major party in this country.   ;D
« Last Edit: July 05, 2007, 08:41:11 am by Rocketman »

41 mag on July 26, 2007, 01:41:16 am
my question is this; who in the name of hell would want anything that could even slightly be labeled a republican in any office this side of the municipal turd walloper?    These wonderful conservatives have given us a deficit that cannot be repayed and the worst economics for the disappearing middle class since the robber barons of the gilded age. good christ people get your heads out of your ass and stop thinking of loaded and pejoritive terms such as conservative and liberal ;stop voting on emotions or on how the jerks look on t.v. . vote the issues and the man . all splinter parties do is split the vote so some no-good weasel can slip in. Consider dick nixon for example.n You can consider him I don't have that strong of a stomach anymore. my point is this get behind someone that isn't owned,bought and paid for by people and companies that you wouldn't buy a used car from  (nixon again as told by lyndon johnson in 58)  and bloody well vote the issues that concern you . If we all did that,we can turn this country around to something that is not an embarassment.

Rocketman on July 26, 2007, 10:33:36 am
41 mag:
     We are almost certainly not going to turn this country around, at least if we continue to elect solely Republicans and Democracts.  Lets take the issue of the Second Amendment since that is one that I am somewhat familar with.  The Republicans have been using "gun control" for many years as a wedge to elect anti-gun Republican politicans to office arguing that with a Republican majority that they can roll back gun laws.  From 1996 to 2006 they did have the majority.  Did they roll back the laws?  Of course not.  All they had to do was just be a little less anti-gun than their Democractic opponets and gun owners continue to vote for them.  This is not going to change as long as there isn't a 3rd major party arguing for a complete roll back of all gun laws and who are growing in strength.  The Republicans will see that and modify their position in order to gain support for their party or lose election to us.  An old phrase comes to mind "politicans don't see the light but they do feel the heat."  ;)

Frank B. on July 29, 2007, 07:32:19 pm
One of the best treatises on democracy I've seen in popular culture was an episode of "South Park" called "Douche And Turd".  A must see for believers in the democratic process.


Sean Roach on October 15, 2007, 09:17:51 pm
I read through the graphic novel, here on the website, and then had to have more.

The graphic novel is beautiful, but it couldn't hold a candle to the novel upon which it was based, could it?

Actually, it does, for different reasons.  I found, in the last chapters of the book, it was enjoyable to read the book with the comic open.  As I read the original, I'd see elements of each frame that I'd missed previously.  One good example?  comic page 154.  The gavel goes flying.  The scene in the book describes that actual element.

Comic page 151, it's his WATCH the ape keeps close to the microphone.  I hadn't noticed that detail before, but the book mentions it.

All that's just digging through the comic, now, trying to remember what I spotted only while reading the book.

Of course, the comic added touches too.  I liked seeing dubwa on page 145.  It went well with Richard Nixon as a second story man, and Jimmy Carter as a peanut vendor, both from the book.  Also, I liked the "Homeland Security" homage early in the comic, (that one stuck with me).  Dan Rather and Connie Chung on page 156.  Superman on 158.  Again, a cursory purview, starting from the end.

wlessard on February 24, 2014, 06:18:26 pm
Happily I read it about 1980. What was a hardcover paperback from the Library. I am planning on getting the Kindle edition of the Graphic Novel this week and maybe look into buying the actual physical Graphic Novel as well.

Great Book

Wasn't there a follow up if I remember right?

Tucci78 on March 02, 2014, 05:03:19 am
Happily I read it about 1980. What was a hardcover paperback from the Library. I am planning on getting the Kindle edition of the Graphic Novel this week and maybe look into buying the actual physical Graphic Novel as well.

Great Book

Wasn't there a follow up if I remember right?

Some several.  To quote from the Wiki-friggin'-pedia page on Mr. Smith,

Several of his works constitute the North American Confederacy series:   

  • The Probability Broach (1980) is an alternate history novel in which history has taken a different turn because a single word in the Declaration of Independence was changed. The United States has become replaced by a minarchist/libertarian society, the North American Confederacy. in this parallel universe, also known to science fiction fans as the Gallatin Universe because of the pivotal role of Albert Gallatin in the point of divergence. The antagonists of the series are styled Federalists, or sometimes "Hamiltonians", after the historical political party of George Washington and Alexander Hamilton. In 2004, a graphic novel version was released, illustrated by Scott Bieser.

  • The Venus Belt (1980) takes place in outer space and discusses other settlements in the Gallatin Universe solar system. The Federalists are attempting to base a new civilization in interstellar space, kidnapping and enslaving a quarter of a million women as breeding stock from the anti-libertarian timeline from which the viewpoint character of The Probability Broach had escaped, with a plan to someday return in force to take over both of the alternate versions of Earth discovered by way of the P'wheet/Thorens probability broach.

  • Their Majesties' Bucketeers (1981) is a pastiche of the Sherlock Holmes tales by Arthur Conan Doyle, introducing the Lamviin, a trilaterally symmetrical race of aliens native to the arid planet of Sodde Lydfe. Their Majesties' Bucketeers introduces characters who later interact with others in the Gallatin Universe.
  • The Nagasaki Vector (1983) is written from the perspective of a time traveler who is shifted from yet another alternative probability line into the Gallatin Universe by the nuclear explosion over Nagasaki (on August 9, 1945) during World War II.

  • In Tom Paine Maru (1984), entrepreneurs of the Confederacy travel from world to world, exploring the various kinds of messes made by the Federalists who had been shifted back in time and scattered at random over the universe at the conclusion of The Venus Belt. The Federalists had created dozens of colonies, all of which had suffered disaster and retrogression under Federalist rule. Smith uses this device to criticize non-libertarian forms of government.

  • In The Gallatin Divergence (1985), a time-traveling Federalist woman wants to change history but is opposed by the protagonists of The Probability Broach. As these two forces clash, history is once again altered and yet another timeline is created.

  • The American Zone (2001), the most recent entry in the series, is a direct sequel to The Probability Broach concerned with the refugees from various anti-libertarian versions of the United States who take up residence in the Confederacy, and the response of the Confederacy to terrorist violence.
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

wdg3rd on March 02, 2014, 11:00:09 pm

Some several.  To quote from the Wiki-friggin'-pedia page on Mr. Smith,

Several of his works constitute the North American Confederacy series:   

That list leaves out Brightsuit MacBear and Taflak Lysandra,  as well as the brief crossover near the end of Forge of the Elders.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot