lurkergao on October 13, 2020, 12:12:23 pm
Going to nitpick here, this is a society with massive immigration. Great privacy laws and huge lower income populations that are particularly vulnerable. They shouldnt have so little expeirence with prison breaks. Whether or not this society is objectively better organized crime would be a near certainty. Gangsters dont officially own anything because the courts will seize it. The weird arbitrate everything thing this city has will come across the problem of proving a person owns something. In those cases they can either let them walk while trying to prove those assets are actually owned by the person or arrest and hold them. Releasing them is problematic for many reasons. One of them being they will actively impede the investigation. If they keep them locked up while they try to shake something loose then there will be prison break attempts. I appreciate the dislike this comic has for the prison industrial complex. But they would be holding a ton of wiseguys. Maybe alex's crimes didnt place him in gangster prison?

Skull the Troll on October 13, 2020, 03:14:51 pm
Except there is little for Organized Crime to prey on here. Prostitution , Drugs, gambling are all legal. Protection rackets are probably a nonstarter with as individualistic as they all are. They wouldn't put up with the inference and as a group they could beat a mob of thugs. Loansharking wouldn't be a crime either just the collection tactics that they might use. Even the collection tactics are probably unhelpful anyhow. I doubt there's formal bankruptcy in this society, its more like you leave for another part of the universe and never pay, so good luck breaking your legs. Corporate Crime seems problematic though, as well as warlord-tier criminals. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 07:46:36 pm by Skull the Troll »

lurkergao on October 14, 2020, 02:11:34 am
human trafficking, (yes prostitution is legal but in a society with brain implant tech the mob would be quick to develop mind control devices) even if this tech was for some reason difficult to implement they could buy enslaved robots from a world that still has them program them to claim they are free and refuse all brain scans using their rights as a citizen. And then use them as prostitutes mules and hitmen or anything else i cant think of right this moment. Organlegging- find a mark somebody with some expensive implants kidnap them and sell said implants. And on that note extortion. Yes ppl have self defense weapons here. That doesnt mean much we have guns in america too. The mob sneaks up on you and out numbers you. They firebomb your store while your sleeping mobsters generally dont challenge you to a pistol duel. Libertarian ideals dont magically make people not afraid. Insurance fraud my store was burned down by the mob etc this guy's hover car ran into me (because they hacked it to do so. Blackmail sexual or otherwise(already happened in comic). Child prostitution snuff prostitution. Loan sharking generally has always had the drawback of them skipping town. Having portals just means there is nowhere remote enough to escape. And rather than breaking your legs they take your legs/enslave your ass. Gambling which doesnt really matter if it's legal it's about taking advantage of ppl with gambling addictions. Works for the yakuza. Construction scams.. Sabotaging ships engines and then 'finding' them and making them pay exorbitant sums to tow you back to base. Thats what i can think of off the top of my head. Things may be legal that doesnt mean more money cant be made doing them illegally. Think about that movie the irishman they made money by stealing beef then selling it in mob restaurants. Selling beef isnt illegal. Maybe this primarily goes on in the slum bubble we saw earlier maybe it's everywhere but mostly invisible. But it would certainly be there just think about all the possible scenarios in this society

Skull the Troll on October 14, 2020, 02:44:38 pm
human trafficking, (yes prostitution is legal but in a society with brain implant tech the mob would be quick to develop mind control devices) even if this tech was for some reason difficult to implement they could buy enslaved robots from a world that still has them program them to claim they are free and refuse all brain scans using their rights as a citizen. And then use them as prostitutes mules and hitmen or anything else i cant think of right this moment. Organlegging- find a mark somebody with some expensive implants kidnap them and sell said implants. And on that note extortion. Yes ppl have self defense weapons here. That doesnt mean much we have guns in america too. The mob sneaks up on you and out numbers you. They firebomb your store while your sleeping mobsters generally dont challenge you to a pistol duel. Libertarian ideals dont magically make people not afraid. Insurance fraud my store was burned down by the mob etc this guy's hover car ran into me (because they hacked it to do so. Blackmail sexual or otherwise(already happened in comic). Child prostitution snuff prostitution. Loan sharking generally has always had the drawback of them skipping town. Having portals just means there is nowhere remote enough to escape. And rather than breaking your legs they take your legs/enslave your ass. Gambling which doesnt really matter if it's legal it's about taking advantage of ppl with gambling addictions. Works for the yakuza. Construction scams.. Sabotaging ships engines and then 'finding' them and making them pay exorbitant sums to tow you back to base. Thats what i can think of off the top of my head. Things may be legal that doesnt mean more money cant be made doing them illegally. Think about that movie the irishman they made money by stealing beef then selling it in mob restaurants. Selling beef isnt illegal. Maybe this primarily goes on in the slum bubble we saw earlier maybe it's everywhere but mostly invisible. But it would certainly be there just think about all the possible scenarios in this society

Their tech though prevents a ton of this. Before I get into that though let me just say, yeah I don't believe they would have no need of jails either. Just plain theft would be a huge problem, and as anyone who was a fan of the stainless steel rat books like I was would know, better protections eventually lead to better criminals. However in this sci-fi story where they don't need jails I still think a lot of the stuff you listed could be prevented or just plain not cared about. for example, "You got in deep to your bookie? Well, you're stupid, and they have a right to collect what you owe." On the problem of bolting, sure portals can take them anywhere you go (unless of course you have the advantage of an Oreseme Shield) but they have to know where you went. Tech that can literally take you anywhere in the universe in the blink of an eye. There's too many places to check by far even if you only check worlds with humans on it.  Child prostitution? Some adult (or android) puts their adult brain in a child's (or whatever "niche" body/species type you want) body. Yeah there might be a certain subset that wants the "real thing" but are there enough of those to create a syndicate? So much of what the mob does is based on living in a society with lots of badly enforced rules, when you look at the state of the current mob its almost entirely about drugs, no matter what the Scorsese movies say.

customdesigned on October 16, 2020, 06:55:10 pm
Note, the ancient anarchy (and literal theocracy) of Israel before the kings had no jails.  For property crimes, like theft, you were made to pay restitution (becoming a slave until the sabbath year if you had no assets).  For violent crimes, like murder and rape, you were executed by stoning.  No jails.

Solomon instituted restraining orders (with death penalty for violation).  And by the time of Jeremiah, royal prisons were a thing.

So prison does seem to me to be associated with centralized government.

lurkergao on October 16, 2020, 11:12:13 pm
Does bubblecity have slavery? I have been wondering how they deal with persons who cant(or wont) pay the amount arbitrated against them. Also not sure you can fit all situations into arbitration. If a drunk driver runs over somebody before they got a brainscan(like diana when she first got here) but he is broke. Does he go scott free simply on the grounds there is nobody alive to collect what he owes?(no heirs assumed.) If they do collect the payment anyway. What if the car is stolen? Do they still seize it. How they handle bankruptcy very much interests me. Also is there s flat acceptable rate for murder? Or does it depend on their assets? If it was a flat rate the heirs of the pillars might start hunting citizens for sport. Since they can just buy themselves out of it. Also hitmen who could off ppl without getting caught would be pretty popular i'd imagine a less moral alyss could have jerome assasinated. Since he is a pain and spreading an agenda.

Skull the Troll on October 19, 2020, 08:14:57 am
Does bubblecity have slavery? I have been wondering how they deal with persons who cant(or wont) pay the amount arbitrated against them. Also not sure you can fit all situations into arbitration. If a drunk driver runs over somebody before they got a brainscan(like diana when she first got here) but he is broke. Does he go scott free simply on the grounds there is nobody alive to collect what he owes?(no heirs assumed.) If they do collect the payment anyway. What if the car is stolen? Do they still seize it. How they handle bankruptcy very much interests me. Also is there s flat acceptable rate for murder? Or does it depend on their assets? If it was a flat rate the heirs of the pillars might start hunting citizens for sport. Since they can just buy themselves out of it. Also hitmen who could off ppl without getting caught would be pretty popular i'd imagine a less moral alyss could have jerome assassinated. Since he is a pain and spreading an agenda.

Agreed. I doubt they condone slavery as it would impinge on their rights to free movement etc. I rather suspect were supposed to be looking at this society in the idealized sense, much like the original version of Star Trek. You can poke holes in how it all works, but you're suppose to believe that the entire society just want to do it. Star Trek moved on from that and it feels like Scott is too, starting to look at how human behavior affects things. My suspicion with what happens with a person who can't pay a judgement is that they are exiled. Its never been shown in the comic, but I wonder if some sort of bond is required when moving into the city? You put so many credits into escrow and then if you don't pay a judgement, your bills, etc then they take the bond and you're out on your ass. Still doesn't cover how money doesn't make up for a life though. With a society this large and no restrictions on intoxicants, they have several drunk related homicides per day probably.

Sean Roach on October 21, 2020, 10:42:43 am
Insurance, and blackballing.
If society is generally wealthy enough, and most everyone pays into an assurance corporation, then if someone gets into trouble and refuses to or can't pay, they lose their assurance provider, can't hire a new one, maybe find they're no longer welcome in general, and some combination of their former assurance company and the assurance company the victim has, pays out what they can to make the victim whole. Even if the blackballing isn't official, if they're generally remarked as a bad risk, because they reneged once, the costs to get an assurance provider later go up, and the assurance provider will probably require them to cover old debts, first, since they need to work with the other assurance providers for the system to function smoothly. A renegade, cover anyone, assurance provider, quickly finds that they can't get any cooperation from the others and may find themselves out of business.  (Or, they have the market cornered, remind the smaller, scrupled, assurance providers that there is no business without their business, and operate as crookedly as they wish. Network effect can be a bad thing, too.)

Really, it's too bad that "The Probability Broach" isn't free online any more, because it had a decent explanation of how such a system could work when the house was attacked, Win conducted target practice in his birthday suit, and the aftermath of it.
Of course, "The Probability Broach" had jails. Paper-tissue thin ones, but jails all the same.

lurkergao on October 21, 2020, 01:36:45 pm
Insurance, and blackballing.
If society is generally wealthy enough, and most everyone pays into an assurance corporation, then if someone gets into trouble and refuses to or can't pay, they lose their assurance provider, can't hire a new one, maybe find they're no longer welcome in general, and some combination of their former assurance company and the assurance company the victim has, pays out what they can to make the victim whole. Even if the blackballing isn't official, if they're generally remarked as a bad risk, because they reneged once, the costs to get an assurance provider later go up, and the assurance provider will probably require them to cover old debts, first, since they need to work with the other assurance providers for the system to function smoothly. A renegade, cover anyone, assurance provider, quickly finds that they can't get any cooperation from the others and may find themselves out of business.  (Or, they have the market cornered, remind the smaller, scrupled, assurance providers that there is no business without their business, and operate as crookedly as they wish. Network effect can be a bad thing, too.)

Really, it's too bad that "The Probability Broach" isn't free online any more, because it had a decent explanation of how such a system could work when the house was attacked, Win conducted target practice in his birthday suit, and the aftermath of it.
Of course, "The Probability Broach" had jails. Paper-tissue thin ones, but jails all the same.

That actually isn't the deterrent you think it is. (I don't remember if I've already read the probability broach or not btw I have wandered around the other stories in binges over the years). being blackballed and not being able to be insured is a deterrent for somebody like otto who has significant assets and a bright future to lose and he can pay the penalties. If you don't have any of that all it does is insure that once you've been blackballed you have to commit crimes to continue living. Think of the US prison system for example once a felon gets out it's extremely hard for him to get a legal job. so eventually it becomes a matter of survival to commit crimes again. if there are high costs to becoming a normal citizen again they will find ways of living outside the system. Exile could make some sense though I imagine that would make them real unpopular with whoever they are tossing all their criminals at. I have also wondered how much a ticket off bubblecity costs? I have wondered if they blackball ppl so hard that they can't afford to leave. We've really only seen mega rich people's access to teleportation tech even Diana had affluent supporters that made her situation not normal. What would a human born in the slums have access to? would they be able to afford the brain implant that seems almost mandatory for functioning in this society?