lee n. field on January 15, 2020, 10:20:42 am
I can see how half wits could be laboring to pay for their air, water, and such, but given near current day automation tech, anybody thinking strategically will have a fleet of bots tending to their needs via a commodities market system of abundance. Air & water is abundant in deep space. Hydrogen for fusion is abundant in deep space. Heavier elements are a bit buried, but are none the less available. This is known science in current day. Laziness and mental issues would be the only prevention for near post scarcity society. Life based food and decorations would be the "Gold" of their environment, simply because it is fragile and requires special levels of commitment.

From our perspective, 30th century QV universe society it would be "post scarcity".    Just like we would be to someone just off the fields in 1820's England.  From their perspective, they're still subject to economic limitations.  Something costs.

lee n. field on January 15, 2020, 10:24:16 am
My thinking is that generally most people in Bubbleopolis would have just two backups, an A/B arrangement, and keep them either at home or in a nearby vault.

One thing about personality-memory back-ups is they are extremely complex, even by 31st-Century standards, and you don't want ANY typos or noise. So, you upload your back-up by wire, not by radio or q-wave, which means you have to have a set-up something like what we saw Diana use at Alyss' house.

Bear also in mind that, unlike the Star Trek universe, this is not a "post-scarcity" economy (what a ridiculous notion) and back-up gear and resurrection services cost money and most people don't want to spend much more than we might spend on life insurance policies. Especially when they get complacent, living inside a Borvonite sphere. Some people might have multiple off-site back-ups, and they can be resurrected, but some of those back-ups might be quite out-of-date. This would make for some interesting personal situations. (What do you mean, we got divorced? When?)

How different, in the QV-verse, is backing up a bio-person from backing up an android?

Apollo-Soyuz on January 15, 2020, 11:33:54 am
Well we know that humans need a 'plant to be backed up, and I think it's safe to assume that arti-folk have this part built in to any of the higher levels of AI.

What we haven't learned yet is if the belt-apes have adopted 'plants after the storyline 500 year (or so) leap forward. 


How different, in the QV-verse, is backing up a bio-person from backing up an android?

Apollo-Soyuz on January 15, 2020, 11:53:15 am
Have you decided how the inner/outer spheres work? Pandemonium is an inner sphere, and nets the lowest amount of solar energy from that, but they probably have to pay less for Bubbleopolis expenses like paying for the shields/defense/station-keeping/other administration stuff. 

I suppose as more and more spheres were added, they could shuffle themselves around and form like an outer skin of a sphere -- getting larger and larger so all the spheres that wanted to pay for the privilege got prime outside position, while the inner spheres would get less light and the ones in the center get twilight.




You mean, if they don't pay the rent for their domicile? (The "air bill" is wrapped up in that.) Pretty much the same as here. They get evicted. No, not ejected into vacuum. They might go to Pandemonium, or they might apply to one of the many beneficencias either for a loan to cover the rent or for passage to another world.

JanessaVR on January 16, 2020, 05:44:18 pm
I find it interesting that the people of Bubbleopolis accept the backups as themselves - I personally don't, but at this point I'm willing to recognize that identity is subjective, so that's nice for them.

I have a cryonics contract IRL, and my revival instructions state to revive me, not to make a copy of me.
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Apollo-Soyuz on January 17, 2020, 12:41:17 pm
In the storyline from the beginning, characters have wrestled with this. Apparently in-story people still argue about the existence of a "soul", even while insisting upon equal rights for "arti-folk"; and while backing up an AI was fairly common, it took a while for humans to get on board.

In the vibe-verse, humans are for all practical purposes just "meat-bots", and with the proper implants can be backed up to storage medium, loaded into a "tin" body or loaded into another biological body, perhaps one with some extra arms, blue skin, or a different gender. Cloning spare body parts is routine, and the human body itself can be near endlessly be rejuvenated.   

I find it interesting that the people of Bubbleopolis accept the backups as themselves - I personally don't, but at this point I'm willing to recognize that identity is subjective, so that's nice for them.

I have a cryonics contract IRL, and my revival instructions state to revive me, not to make a copy of me.

JanessaVR on January 17, 2020, 09:01:33 pm
In the storyline from the beginning, characters have wrestled with this. Apparently in-story people still argue about the existence of a "soul", even while insisting upon equal rights for "arti-folk"; and while backing up an AI was fairly common, it took a while for humans to get on board.

In the vibe-verse, humans are for all practical purposes just "meat-bots", and with the proper implants can be backed up to storage medium, loaded into a "tin" body or loaded into another biological body, perhaps one with some extra arms, blue skin, or a different gender. Cloning spare body parts is routine, and the human body itself can be near endlessly be rejuvenated.   
I'm completely fine with replacing everything but my brain.  And even that can be done, as long it's a neuron-by-neuron "Move" operation to artificial brain (where I'm conscious and mentally functional throughout it), as opposed to a "Copy" operation, as truthfully I'd prefer to just live in virtual reality and permanently abandon physical reality.  Wish me luck in century or two. ;)
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Scott on January 18, 2020, 03:27:13 pm
I find it interesting that the people of Bubbleopolis accept the backups as themselves - I personally don't, but at this point I'm willing to recognize that identity is subjective, so that's nice for them.

I have a cryonics contract IRL, and my revival instructions state to revive me, not to make a copy of me.

This brings to mind an episode of Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan story in which a woman from the early 21st Century had her head frozen and after a couple of centuries the meat-matter had degenerated to the point there was no "reviving" it, but a meat-copy could be made via advanced computer-scanning and algorithmic trickery. You might be limiting your options a bit too much there, Janessa. OTOH this woman had a very difficult time adjusting to life in the new century (as most revived "corpsicles" did) so that might be for the best.

JanessaVR on January 20, 2020, 04:38:14 pm
This brings to mind an episode of Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan story in which a woman from the early 21st Century had her head frozen and after a couple of centuries the meat-matter had degenerated to the point there was no "reviving" it, but a meat-copy could be made via advanced computer-scanning and algorithmic trickery. You might be limiting your options a bit too much there, Janessa. OTOH this woman had a very difficult time adjusting to life in the new century (as most revived "corpsicles" did) so that might be for the best.
That's...not how cryonics works.

Modern cryonics uses excellent cryoprotectants, and cryonics patients are well vitrified.  As long as they're kept submerged in liquid nitrogen, there is no "degeneration."  If there was, then any form of brain scanning wouldn't work, either.  Apparently Warren Ellis neglected to do some basic research before writing.

Cryonics is the modern version of Pascal's Wager, dependent on the development of a more mature nanomedicine.


« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 04:47:26 pm by JanessaVR »
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Scott on January 22, 2020, 11:29:21 am
This brings to mind an episode of Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan story in which a woman from the early 21st Century had her head frozen and after a couple of centuries the meat-matter had degenerated to the point there was no "reviving" it, but a meat-copy could be made via advanced computer-scanning and algorithmic trickery. You might be limiting your options a bit too much there, Janessa. OTOH this woman had a very difficult time adjusting to life in the new century (as most revived "corpsicles" did) so that might be for the best.
That's...not how cryonics works.

Modern cryonics uses excellent cryoprotectants, and cryonics patients are well vitrified.  As long as they're kept submerged in liquid nitrogen, there is no "degeneration."  If there was, then any form of brain scanning wouldn't work, either.  Apparently Warren Ellis neglected to do some basic research before writing.

Cryonics is the modern version of Pascal's Wager, dependent on the development of a more mature nanomedicine.

In fairness to Warren, he wrote Transmetropolitan in the early 1990s. I would imagine cryonics has improved since then.

lee n. field on January 25, 2020, 11:58:13 am
One thing about personality-memory back-ups is they are extremely complex, even by 31st-Century standards, and you don't want ANY typos or noise. So, you upload your back-up by wire, not by radio or q-wave, which means you have to have a set-up something like what we saw Diana use at Alyss' house.

Give that, how good of a copy of Alyss is the one that took over the master AI of Zytemonde?  (Wonder what's been happening back there...)


Apollo-Soyuz on January 25, 2020, 04:55:00 pm
One would presume some traces of the Master Processor still exist, since it was an emergency transfer.

It's entirely possible that the new MP could go completely insane.

And of course if just about everything except the remaining AI robots is controlled by the Master Processor, that could cause a  Logan's Run / Paranoia RPG type storyline


Give that, how good of a copy of Alyss is the one that took over the master AI of Zytemonde?  (Wonder what's been happening back there...)

Skull the Troll on February 08, 2020, 08:23:34 am
Scott decided to shut us up. :) Its now canon that they consider it more of a risk to have a backup elsewhere. I wouldn't.. but 1000 years of cultural evolution... It's no weirder than some of the beliefs we have.

DrakBibliophile on February 08, 2020, 10:08:19 am
Nah, he didn't come here to tell us to shut up.  ;)

On the other hand, he established that it is canon that most people consider it risker to have backup elsewhere (outside of their control).   :)

Scott decided to shut us up. :) Its now canon that they consider it more of a risk to have a backup elsewhere. I wouldn't.. but 1000 years of cultural evolution... It's no weirder than some of the beliefs we have.
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Drak Bibliophile (The Book Loving Dragon)
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Sometimes the Dragon Wins!!
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Sean Roach on February 08, 2020, 11:32:09 am
Personally, I'd go with something like what Hugh and Murphy did, but with an automated bootloader. Then I'd bury it somewhere in another galaxy.
Off-site backups would be handled by Murphy equipped displacement drone, and possibly split in two and staggered so I could confirm the first one got away before sending the critical second one to follow.

I'd be in control of this remote site by the simple logic that it would be harder to find it, even looking for it, than to guess the security key to get into my house on the first try.

This is all provided I had the disposable cash to do so without significantly impacting my other activites. That's one ship, with restore hardware, and either a spare body or the means of generating one. That cost would add up even in the QuantumVerse.


Nah, he didn't come here to tell us to shut up.  ;)

On the other hand, he established that it is canon that most people consider it risker to have backup elsewhere (outside of their control).   :)

Scott decided to shut us up. :) Its now canon that they consider it more of a risk to have a backup elsewhere. I wouldn't.. but 1000 years of cultural evolution... It's no weirder than some of the beliefs we have.

 

anything