JanessaVR on March 13, 2020, 04:27:04 pm
You are confusing social welfare programs with Socialism - Bernie Sanders keeps making this mistake and Denmark would really like him to stop calling them a Socialist country.

The true hallmark of a Socialist country is direct state ownership of critical industries.  People who say they want Socialism frequently don't understand what they're asking for, or what that would entail - but they do really like to hear those promises of "free" stuff being showered on them.  But as Margaret Thatcher so famously noted, the problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples' money to spend.

And if you really do love Socialism, what the heck are you doing here, of all places, where Libertarianism is promoted rather heavily?  Bubbleopolis exists as an argument against Socialists, who have consistently been portrayed as the villains in multiple comics on this site.
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Skull the Troll on March 16, 2020, 09:53:15 am
I can read this and even admire the system as it is portrayed. That said, Bubbleopolis isn't any more free of laws (Alex just referred to privacy laws for example) than Star Trek is free of money. I like both universes however. You can have Democratic Socialism without having direct state ownership of industry though. A decent example is how you get your electricity or Gas (assuming you are hooked to the grid) There is one network of transmission lines usually owned by one of the local power producer/suppliers. However it is regulated to control costs and to allow for what needs to be, by basic physics, a monopoly. My local power company can't just decide to raise rates. It has to go by the regulating agency in my state to make sure that rate hike is fair. We can have financial assistance to the elderly who are having trouble heating their homes.

JanessaVR on March 16, 2020, 12:08:11 pm
Again, that's not Socialism.  The existence of some regulatory rules not represent the implementation of Socialism (and the subsequent destruction of the economy, mass starvation, etc.).

And the "Democratic Socialists" are a smokescreen - they clearly want the real thing, even if some of them don't like admitting it in public.

Always remember - "What did Socialists use before candles?  Electricity."
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Skull the Troll on March 19, 2020, 12:57:35 pm
Again, that's not Socialism.  The existence of some regulatory rules not represent the implementation of Socialism (and the subsequent destruction of the economy, mass starvation, etc.).

And the "Democratic Socialists" are a smokescreen - they clearly want the real thing, even if some of them don't like admitting it in public.

Always remember - "What did Socialists use before candles?  Electricity."

Naw, there are a dozen democratic socialist governments in Europe that haven't gone anywhere near a true socialist state.  That's the flaw in your argument you act like there aren't good examples of where it works all over the place. Yes there's some pretty bad examples too, but that's also true of capitalism and libratarianism.

JanessaVR on March 20, 2020, 12:15:54 am
There's no such thing as "democratic socialism."  If there's still a free market, it's a Capitalist country, even if it has social welfare programs and market regulation.  Again, you keep making the Bernie Sanders mistake.  If a country is truly Socialist, you'll know.  For the best modern example, see Venezuela, where Socialism was faithfully implemented.  Capitalism is the natural state of humanity - it takes authoritarian government control to suppress that into a command economy (and thus destroy the country).

Also, I wonder why you read Quantum Vibe, if you love big government so much.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2020, 12:19:25 am by JanessaVR »
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Skull the Troll on March 20, 2020, 05:17:53 pm
There's no such thing as "democratic socialism."  If there's still a free market, it's a Capitalist country, even if it has social welfare programs and market regulation.  Again, you keep making the Bernie Sanders mistake.  If a country is truly Socialist, you'll know.  For the best modern example, see Venezuela, where Socialism was faithfully implemented.  Capitalism is the natural state of humanity - it takes authoritarian government control to suppress that into a command economy (and thus destroy the country).

Also, I wonder why you read Quantum Vibe, if you love big government so much.

I like fantasy. :) Besides Democratic Socialism is just as real as libratarianism. Except that in the case of DS there are countries like Sweden, Great Britan, Norway excetera that are doing it. A democratic socialist state is also capitalist.

JanessaVR on March 20, 2020, 05:32:42 pm
Again, no.  True, actual Socialism can only sustained by authoritarian government force.  You can vote your way into Socialism (or Communism, which is what all Socialists actually want), but you have to shoot your way out.

At this point, I think we've hit full Princess Bride territory.  "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

Skull the Troll on March 21, 2020, 07:58:47 am
Again, no.  True, actual Socialism can only sustained by authoritarian government force.  You can vote your way into Socialism (or Communism, which is what all Socialists actually want), but you have to shoot your way out.

At this point, I think we've hit full Princess Bride territory.  "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Youre right on the definition. I'll stop now. That said I can tell you youre wrong on all DS supporters wanting actual socialism. I'm DS and I very much don't. I'd like public colleges to be cost free (but not eliminate private ones) and I'd like a government option for heathcare and a requirement that everyone carries health insurance just like you must carry car insurance. I still like buying things on Amazon, and going to Texas Roadhouse for dinner, and shopping for a new car though, thank you.