Big Head Press Forum

Online Comics => Escape From Terra => Topic started by: Scott on November 19, 2011, 06:42:34 pm

Title: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: Scott on November 19, 2011, 06:42:34 pm
A fan alerted me via Twitter that a review of ESCAPE FROM TERRA written by Lauren Davis has appeared on io9, a fairly popular sci-fi-culture site. Lauren made a few errors but her review is generally fair.

There is a lot of lunk-headedness in the comments section, though. If anyone wants to join that fracas, be my guest, but I hope you will retain the rhetorical high ground and show everyone how sophisticated EFT fans are, eh?
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: Scott on November 21, 2011, 02:10:20 pm
The URL for the interview is http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres (http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres)
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on November 22, 2011, 05:31:24 pm
The URL for the interview is http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres (http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres)

"Lunkheads" is right.  As for the article in general, I really wish that folks would realize that AnCap supporters know and never claim that it would not be a "Utopia".  
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: sam on November 22, 2011, 07:03:04 pm
I really wish that folks would realize that AnCap supporters know and never claim that it would not be a "Utopia". 

My position is similar to that of Gustav de Molinari - that privately supplied protective violence is bound to be a lot cheaper than monopoly protective violence.

And, what is cheaper, tends to be more abundantly supplied and utilized, with the result that from the point of view of vandals, bums, hoodlums, and assorted wrongdoers, anarcho capitalism would look a bit fascist.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: UncleRice on November 22, 2011, 09:00:47 pm
To some extent, I do not disagree with the blog and it's comments. The current hioghly regulated government is guilty of the sub prime mortgage screw up, an abundance of other stuff, and the debt crisis, while the Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain. Then their is religious beliefs. The Idea of ZAP, ABCT, and related theories being adhered to in a functionally universal manner is essentially akin to a virtual universal religion of itself. This I find highly improbable. I personally see no reason to believe humans will ever achieve a reasonable, let alone utopian, society for more than about 3.5 seconds. It will not be until either an inhuman AI or God himself comes along and takes over that we poor sops will see either a reasonable or utopian society.

That being said, I enjoy the mental exercise. Please continue.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on November 22, 2011, 09:56:11 pm
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)

Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on November 23, 2011, 01:25:06 am
The URL for the interview is http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres (http://io9.com/5860981/in-escape-from-terra-a-libertarian-utopia-grows-on-ceres)

"Lunkheads" is right.  As for the article in general, I really wish that folks would realize that AnCap supporters know and never claim that it would not be a "Utopia". 

So your double negative means that you know that AnCap is really a utopia, right?   ;D
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on November 23, 2011, 01:27:57 am
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)



Wow, firsthand revisionist history, in our little ol' forum!  I didnt think I would see someone defending those mine owners... but wait, this is AnCap; of course they would!
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on November 23, 2011, 01:28:56 am
To some extent, I do not disagree with the blog and it's comments. The current hioghly regulated government is guilty of the sub prime mortgage screw up, an abundance of other stuff, and the debt crisis, while the Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain. Then their is religious beliefs. The Idea of ZAP, ABCT, and related theories being adhered to in a functionally universal manner is essentially akin to a virtual universal religion of itself. This I find highly improbable. I personally see no reason to believe humans will ever achieve a reasonable, let alone utopian, society for more than about 3.5 seconds. It will not be until either an inhuman AI or God himself comes along and takes over that we poor sops will see either a reasonable or utopian society.

That being said, I enjoy the mental exercise. Please continue.

Wow, more and more people agreeing with me!  Whatever is this little ol' world coming to?
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on November 23, 2011, 01:43:24 am
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)



First off, you need a Google account and Google Docs to read your first link,
Secondly, you need a $125 to order Mr. Fishbacks book on coal mining.

Amazons "Read Inside" feature is great, but it aint the whole book with appendices and charts.

Most people will agree with Mr. Fishbacks premise until they realize that he is a government employee.
Everyone here know that government employees are not to be trusted because of their inherent bias and unwillingness to challenge to views and aims of the people who sign their paycheck.

Worse still for AnCap is that he a teacher, a college level Professor at that.  This means, according to our local fauna, that he must not know a thing.

So, logically, if he cannot know anything, then anything he says cannot be believed.
If Mr. Fishback can be believed, than someone here has to be wrong.

Myself, I can see how his premise has merit, and appears to be a scholarly undertaking by an economics professor who is already predisposed to the side of the mine owners.

If it werent $125, it might be interesting to read.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: macsnafu on November 23, 2011, 09:57:22 am
You know, it really burns me up that I'm supposed to be vastly more knowledgeable than the people I'm arguing against.  Perhaps it is a fault of my argumentation style, but I'll admit that there's much I don't know.  Of course, it's a bit of a argument trick, if an arguer can come up with some obscure historical event, and if I don't know anything about it, and don't want to read a book about it, then tney think they've won the argument.

Ultimately, though, I'm trying to argue from a certain principle, like the ZAP.  Anybody arguing against that is essentially saying that they are for initiating force under at least some conditions.  Although to be fair, some are simply arguing that force will be initiated, whether it is fair or not.

So how much do I really need to know about the coal mines of 1900?  Really??
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on November 23, 2011, 12:29:00 pm
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)



First off, you need a Google account and Google Docs to read your first link,
Secondly, you need a $125 to order Mr. Fishbacks book on coal mining.

Google accounts are trivial to obtain; I note that it also requires -- gasp -- internet access and the ability to select a URL.

The book can be ordered from Amazon for as little as $7.18, including shipping, at least within the US.

Quote
Most people will agree with Mr. Fishbacks premise until they realize that he is a government employee.
Everyone here know that government employees are not to be trusted because of their inherent bias and unwillingness to challenge to views and aims of the people who sign their paycheck.

Worse still for AnCap is that he a teacher, a college level Professor at that.  This means, according to our local fauna, that he must not know a thing.

So, logically, if he cannot know anything, then anything he says cannot be believed.
If Mr. Fishback can be believed, than someone here has to be wrong.

This is an ad hominem attack, and logically without merit.  Such a reference may raise questions in cases where the arguments may reflect a bias in favor of the employer; however those questions must then be answered by finding that actual bias, and arguing based on the direct evidence.

Quote
Myself, I can see how his premise has merit, and appears to be a scholarly undertaking by an economics professor who is already predisposed to the side of the mine owners.

Evidence of predisposition hasn't been given.



Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: macsnafu on November 26, 2011, 08:55:59 am
I went to that GoogleDocs link, and this Claudia Williamson person includes statistics and references and everything for anyone who is willing to reconsider their position, and not simply hold on to their beliefs fanatically.

It does seem to be focused on West Virginia, but the arguments are not necessarily specific to West Virginia, so there you go.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on November 26, 2011, 11:57:40 am
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)



First off, you need a Google account and Google Docs to read your first link,
Secondly, you need a $125 to order Mr. Fishbacks book on coal mining.

Google accounts are trivial to obtain; I note that it also requires -- gasp -- internet access and the ability to select a URL.

The book can be ordered from Amazon for as little as $7.18, including shipping, at least within the US.

Quote
Most people will agree with Mr. Fishbacks premise until they realize that he is a government employee.
Everyone here know that government employees are not to be trusted because of their inherent bias and unwillingness to challenge to views and aims of the people who sign their paycheck.

Worse still for AnCap is that he a teacher, a college level Professor at that.  This means, according to our local fauna, that he must not know a thing.

So, logically, if he cannot know anything, then anything he says cannot be believed.
If Mr. Fishback can be believed, than someone here has to be wrong.

This is an ad hominem attack, and logically without merit.  Such a reference may raise questions in cases where the arguments may reflect a bias in favor of the employer; however those questions must then be answered by finding that actual bias, and arguing based on the direct evidence.

Quote
Myself, I can see how his premise has merit, and appears to be a scholarly undertaking by an economics professor who is already predisposed to the side of the mine owners.

Evidence of predisposition hasn't been given.

Ah, but if you are trying to convince someone of something and you give them a link which requires them to do extra action, then the data you want your audience to read must not be very important; if it were, you would not make your audience go through extra steps to read data that supports your argument.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: sam on November 26, 2011, 06:09:40 pm
Ah, but if you are trying to convince someone of something and you give them a link which requires them to do extra action, then the data you want your audience to read must not be very important; if it were, you would not make your audience go through extra steps to read data that supports your argument.

The first link I clicked on quoted someone who claimed to have read company employment records, and claimed that the average turnover was about a year, that miners came and went.  Therefore, no "company towns" - there were company towns in that the companies built and owned them to accommodate miners, but the miners came and went - demonstrating a free market in employment and symmetric negotiating power between miners and employers - many potential employees for each employer, and many potential employers for each employee.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: sam on November 27, 2011, 02:20:42 am
This is an ad hominem attack, and logically without merit.  Such a reference may raise questions in cases where the arguments may reflect a bias in favor of the employer; however those questions must then be answered by finding that actual bias, and arguing based on the direct evidence.

Quite so:

Alinsky's Rule 12: Destroy the Individual
    "RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.) "

Similarly Lenin:
   "Why should we bother to reply to Kautsky?   He would reply to us, and we would have to reply to his reply.   There's no end to that. It will be quite enough for us to announce that Kautsky is a traitor to the working class"

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

Know these guys are one voice speaking through a thousand megaphones, each one in perfect conformity to a line that has ten thousand points, and covers every issue in minute detail, though entirely without regard to any logical consistency - the line is emotionally and politically consistent, but fails to actually make any sense.

On many points, those points where the official line is most flagrantly and outrageously false, the official line comes in three similar but logically incompatible versions.  If you should prove A is false, they will call you a liar and a troll and will shift to B, if you should prove B is false, they will call you a troll and a racist and shift to C, and if you prove C is false they will call you a racist and a liar and shift back to A.

For some reason the line is always one version or three versions, never two, nor four.  Perhaps they are inspired by the doctrine of the trinity.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: UncleRice on November 29, 2011, 10:29:49 am
[T]he Laissez-faire group has the coal mines of 1900 to explain.

Check out:

 https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:8ZRM2ZtummoJ:www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/sobel/UnleashingCapitalism/FinalChapters/Chapter4_booklayout_final.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiXnJ-GTkCuu8z8eqVZ-1fb8H4DLpWTMb1EuXntFqPyWUxkb7LR3poOzDxmwk1OIuI46sBaPVMbtRdfDPoplKvpH4Ve2jcLXVx7pw4j6CBJsggC17oAaXWuR2NB057MZUfdKfg3&sig=AHIEtbQaE_7d--oKN6WZ-WWrtxmj3Z5ewA&pli=1)

or the underlying text:

http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258 (http://www.amazon.com/Soft-Coal-Hard-Choices-Bituminous/dp/book-citations/0195067258)


His main two arguments are to some extent disingenuous.

In and around 1900 transportation was slow. Horse and empty wagon can maintain 5 mph for a couple hours on flat ground, but then the horse needs rest. Add a load of goods on the wagon and speeds drop even more. The result is any shopping trip to the next town a mere 20 miles away for cheaper prices would constitute an all day trip to maybe 2 stores. The modern concept of driving around from store to store and from town to town for good prices practicality issues until Spindletop and the Model T.

Picking up and leaving town is an option, but as a child of modern day American nomads, I can tell you picking up and moving more than an hour's travel is financially destructive. If you bought a house, it is iffy if you will ever get out of it what you put into it, the money you spent of stuff is lost if you have to leave that stuff behind, and it gets quite expensive to move it. Moving around only really works if you live in a trailer/wagon and never buy anything that doesn't fit in the trailer/wagon. Then their is the loss of your personal network of people you rely on that doesn't move with you. If you have nothing and your name is dirt, then by all means moving will only help.

Really though, the free market system isn't the problem. Human behavior that is the problem.

It's the private rich dudes that hire there own private army and equip them with expensive advanced weapons the honest sovereign individual would normally never have a need for even if he could afford it. It's the Union thugs that forcefully takeover and damage a factory/mine that is legally owned by someone else. It's the rich guy that gobbles up vast amounts of land that effectively shuts out the individual from running his own operation. It's the mob boss with enforcers.

These elements have been a perennial element of human society that can only be countered effectively by specialists that do nothing but fight these groups. As soon as you assemble such a group of specialists, you are taking the first steps in forming a central government. Central governments work because they are organised. Central governments don't work because they are natural havens for con artists and other robbers and sociopaths. Thus the need for a government that isn't human.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: mellyrn on December 06, 2011, 02:38:09 pm
Quote
These elements have been a perennial element of human society that can only be countered effectively by specialists that do nothing but fight these groups.

Perennial, but not constant.  Consider that, logistically, it is easier to hold a mine or big factory hostage than it is to hold a programming company hostage:  the latter could be X number of individuals scattered over the globe, communicating through a network.  If your operation can be decentralized, it will be harder for it to be taken over, and you won't need those specialists.

If your customer base would rather do without than do business with you because of [insert issue here], they're holding you (or your business) hostage until you conform with their wishes.  Maybe good, maybe bad, but I suspect that if you don't want to so conform, you've chosen the wrong community to live and work in.  Still, if you're sure they're wrong and if you're evangelical enough to want to cause them to change, then you go into the mass-entertainment business and start gently providing content more and more to your way of thinking. . . .

I suppose the issue comes down to that "symmetric power" deal.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: UncleRice on December 07, 2011, 12:04:43 pm
Perennial, but not constant.  Consider that, logistically, it is easier to hold a mine or big factory hostage than it is to hold a programming company hostage:  the latter could be X number of individuals scattered over the globe, communicating through a network.  If your operation can be decentralized, it will be harder for it to be taken over, and you won't need those specialists.
Your describing a system that needs cheap, rapid, unhindered transportation and an abundance of territory. EFT has this, that's why it works. If you don't have such a transportation system your at the mercy of the most organised group with the biggest guns. That's why I see spindle top and the Model T as the biggest friends of the free market system of the early 1900's. It made neo-feudalism impractical.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: mellyrn on December 07, 2011, 01:15:32 pm
Quote
Your describing a system that needs cheap, rapid, unhindered transportation and an abundance of territory.

And/or cheap, easy, widespread communications, like fax machines and the internet.

Quote
That's why I see spindle top and the Model T as the biggest friends of the free market system of the early 1900's. It made neo-feudalism impractical.

PCs, modems and cell phones may be the current friends.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: UncleRice on December 08, 2011, 11:22:27 am
Quote
Your describing a system that needs cheap, rapid, unhindered transportation and an abundance of territory.

And/or cheap, easy, widespread communications, like fax machines and the internet.

Quote
That's why I see spindle top and the Model T as the biggest friends of the free market system of the early 1900's. It made neo-feudalism impractical.

PCs, modems and cell phones may be the current friends.
Cheap, unhindered, fast, high bandwidth communication is the third leg of a free market system, but sooner or later you have to move real stuff, including yourself, and you need to do in somewhat rapidly and cheaply.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: Apollo-Soyuz on December 10, 2011, 08:50:14 pm
...but sooner or later you have to move real stuff, including yourself, and you need to do in somewhat rapidly and cheaply.

enter the TEU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-foot_equivalent_unit), stage right.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: TMIAHM on December 14, 2011, 09:28:03 am
The comments on this article are disapointing to say teh least.

It seems that people FEAR others who just want to be left alone by government.

They FEAR that people with ambition and wanting to work won't continue to support the government teat sucking lazy people.

What is wrong with people today?!
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: mellyrn on December 14, 2011, 11:22:25 am
Quote
What is wrong with people today?!

Since you're asking, same as it's been since at least the dawn of agriculture, only with new and improved firepower.

But we could build a possibly-constructive conversation off the same question sans the temporal qualifier.  Of course, that would mean also discussing what's right with people, if only to get clear on how to define "wrong".


(Yes, I'm quite sure that wasn't a real question but only a rhetorical device signifying extreme dismay.  And rhetorical devices are like grenades in that they should be handled with care, because the thought -> expression reaction is better written as thought <-> expression, as it flows both ways, and the incautious may find himself actively seeking to validate a position he never intended to hold in the first place.)
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: dough560 on December 29, 2011, 04:07:34 pm
Read the article, disjointed by any reach, and wasn't impressed.  Too bad some of the commentators didn't take time to read some of our earlier threads.  Heck many of them didn't even read the story to date, before posting their comments.  TransProg education at it's finest.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: ContraryGuy on December 31, 2011, 03:33:23 pm
  TransProg education at it's finest.

The modern educational system has nothing to do with a persons willingness to read.  You're complaint is that the modern liberal school system is not teaching to read; no school system ever invented or to be invented can teach someone to be willing to read.

Some of the commenters are typical Internet users, and only reply to the post directly above their reply, and some dont feel they have the time to read months or years of background information just to reply to one post.
Title: Re: EFT reviewed on io9
Post by: Scott on January 03, 2012, 10:52:57 am
What fascinates me about that thread is that two of the commenters are prime examples of a relatively new Internet beast, the "Libertarian-Hater." People who don't simply disagree with the philosophy but feel driven to rage and stomp on libertarians wherever they may find us. Several weeks back i09 reviewed QUANTUM VIBE, which is much less overtly ideological, and these same dweebs made a point of telling everyone it's produced by "those evil libertarians."

Strange.