Big Head Press Forum

Online Comics => Escape From Terra => Topic started by: mellyrn on March 03, 2011, 04:56:19 pm

Title: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mellyrn on March 03, 2011, 04:56:19 pm
I have a very vivid imagination.  I might not come up with much new stuff of my own, but I can take a hint and reeeeally run with it.

And this is being an awesome hint!  TCHA!  Shooting into the wall, into total darkness, at that speed?  YEEEHAAAAHH!

Congrats to the author of the (whole) concept.  And congrats to the representation -- for not being a movie, this is being pretty intense!
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 03, 2011, 05:50:25 pm
Wheee!
Yowww!
Hurlll!
What fun.

EFT the animated series?

For that I might get a TV.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 03, 2011, 06:26:40 pm
Wheee!
Yowww!
Hurlll!
What fun.

EFT the animated series?

From your mouth to SyFy's ear!
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 04, 2011, 10:50:12 am
Betcha this ride ain't cheap even if gold is actually worthless and all paper money really is printed in the Land of Make Believe, as some here hold.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: terry_freeman on March 04, 2011, 11:22:01 am
Betcha this ride ain't cheap even if gold is actually worthless and all paper money really is printed in the Land of Make Believe, as some here hold.


Over time, free markets tend to reduce the cost of production of any good or service. This ride appears to have a large capital investment - rails, cars, tunnels, and so forth - and modest incremental costs - a certain amount of energy to lift the cars to the top of the potential well, a certain amount of human effort to maintain and operate the ride; x amount for replacement parts.

Under such conditions, prices would be set low enough to maximize ridership, without permitting marginal expenses to exceed marginal revenues.

The cartoon shows several long trains, presumably full of paying customers. This is consistent with simple economic decision-making, as practiced by real-world entrepreneurs.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 04, 2011, 11:34:19 am
I hope so, Terry, start up and maintainence look to be a beach.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 06, 2011, 08:07:59 am
This comic would make a good TV cartoon.  I could see a sort of retro black and white effect .  Since it is so of political is could be on Fox.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 06, 2011, 10:40:01 am
Since it is so of political is could be on Fox.
Not... really. Generally speaking, people who support AnCap, or who are Libertarians, feel that what passes for conservatism in the mainstream these days is but a snare and a delusion - and their ideas are the ones the mainstream is afraid of (and afraid to allow a fair hearing for).

Of course, just because they laughed at Robert Fulton... when an idea is far outside the mainstream, that could be because it lacks appeal, not because of a conspiracy of silence. But either way, I suspect Fox wouldn't be interested.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 06, 2011, 03:55:30 pm
Yes...  really. 

Fox might or might not want the cartoon, I have no idea.  But I do know this.  If they did it would be because it made money for them.  Fox is well known for cartoons that make money so it could be a good fit. 

Now argue with that.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 07, 2011, 12:03:13 am
Fox News or Fox as in the Simpsons?

I hear tell Oprah has her own cable channel, now how open minded is she?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 07, 2011, 06:40:20 am
Same company.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 07, 2011, 10:41:28 am
Oprah, Bart and Bill O?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mr_pity on March 07, 2011, 01:30:03 pm
Long time listener, first time caller. Today's strip (#651) was amusing enough that I felt the need to register and comment.

The expression on Reggie's face reminds me of this Perry Bible Fellowship strip:

http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF186-Guntron_Alliance_Force.jpg (http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF186-Guntron_Alliance_Force.jpg)

The expression on the blue (then green) leader's face is priceless. Some might call it "grim determination," but I'd call it "resigned terror."  "So long, Skorpex," indeed!
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: AlpineBob on March 08, 2011, 03:33:11 am
Man, this is tedious.  No plot.  No character dev.  Nothing much  but stills of cars on a track.
Yeah, it's a cool idea, but after the second day you used it up. 
How much longer is this trip going to last? 
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 08, 2011, 12:03:32 pm
The voices coming from the door knob tell me the strip will be renamed Escape From Terra by Martian Roller Coaster, EFTMRC, next week. the ride will never ever end, best jump ship now before you end up with your own talking door knob.



Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 08, 2011, 01:54:10 pm
Being a long-time Girl Genius fan myself, I am perfectly content to allow a few days for the comic to build up to excitement... which may well come in tomorrow's comic.

Maybe this will just be another exciting part of the ride - or maybe this will be the mechanical failure that some of us are fearing will happen. Because if something like that isn't what is being built up to, then the complaints might have had some small measure of legitimacy.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 08, 2011, 04:27:54 pm
In order for something like the current stroy within a story to work the reader has to trust the writer is going somewhere good.  With Tolkien, there were parts of his books that draggged but I knew there would be a payoff.  I have not develped that trust yet with Sandfort.

I will give it a few more weeks.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 08, 2011, 07:31:36 pm
With Tolkien, there were parts of his books that draggged but I knew there would be a payoff.
Of course, Tolkien could have learned something from Burroughs. Instead of having a whole book (of the six books into which the story was divided, not the three volumes it is normally sold in) to Merry and Pippin before getting back to Frodo, he really should have taken the work, when it was readied for publication, and alternated chapters between the two scenes.

In fact, I'm surprised the editors at Macmillan didn't request to be allowed to make that one small change, since it clearly would have made the work more commercial.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 08, 2011, 09:54:34 pm
More commercial?  Really?  More commercial than the 'Lord of the Rings'?  Really?

You are comparing Tolkien unfavorably with Burroughs?  Really?

I'm stunned.

I would not change a word, not a syllable, not a comma.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 09, 2011, 12:06:17 am
Split the difference guys, Tarzan, Lord of the Hobbits
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 09, 2011, 12:56:50 am
You are comparing Tolkien unfavorably with Burroughs?  Really?
No. Tolkien's work is a masterpiece, while Burroughs' work is hackwork - beautifully inspired and entertaining hackwork, but hackwork none the less.

However, the one change I suggested, blasphemous as it might seem to some, actually would have made LotR less demanding to first-time readers. It's possible to achieve what I am thinking of by interleaving chapters... without otherwise changing even a comma - without, I suspect, adversely affecting the greatness of the work. Even if it would change the pacing significantly in a sense.

There are people who are just not patient enough to put up with the long wait to get back to Frodo, and they shouldn't be barred from enjoying The Lord of the Rings.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: AmriloJim on March 09, 2011, 07:46:41 am
Same company.

Nope...
Fox Broadcasting Company (FOX) and Fox News Channel (FNC) are separately-operated companies owned by the Fox Entertainment Group, a subsidiary of News Corporation. When FOX was launched in 1986, it did not have news or sports divisions. As a result, FOX enjoyed exemptions from certain FCC requirements. FNC was launched in 1996 as a satellite-only service, maintaining FOX's insulation from those requirements.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 09, 2011, 11:39:22 am
Welcome AmriloJim and you are correct.

Now in a better world Glenn would be right and Homer could sit in for Bill O, hell replace him and who'd notice the difference. Or, to date myself, imagine Al Bundy reading the news. A better world.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Brugle on March 09, 2011, 12:58:16 pm
Tolkien ... should have taken the work, when it was readied for publication, and alternated chapters between the two scenes.
I would not change a word, not a syllable, not a comma.
i am much closer to Glenn on this one.

To me, alternating chapters would have greatly reduced my emotional connection to the characters in LOTR.  It's possible that alternating chapters would have attracted more readers than it would have repelled, but I wouldn't be so sure.

It's also possible that Tolkien wanted to produce the best work he could, and would have rejected such changes even if he thought they might have increased sales.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 09, 2011, 01:47:11 pm
It's also possible that Tolkien wanted to produce the best work he could, and would have rejected such changes even if he thought they might have increased sales.
That's entirely possible.

I am suspecting, though, that alternating the chapters would not have interfered with the reader becoming emotionally involved with the characters. Instead, I think that the fact that they weren't alternating was more of an artifact of the way the book was written originally, and that Tolkien, as primarily a philologist, and not a professional writer of popular fiction, just didn't even consider the possibility of doing it that way.

As for the publisher? Usually, published works do tend to get edited. But on the one hand, The Hobbit was a best seller... and on the other, The Lord of the Rings was such an unconventional work, the publisher may well have entertained only limited hopes for it - and may have felt that nothing would save it. Why annoy the author by suggesting such a change, in that case?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 09, 2011, 09:13:39 pm
So to recap, a couple got on a roller coast and rode it.  And it went up and down and all around and then it came to a stop.  We know this was exciting because it all happened in Spaaaaaaaace!!!!

OK Mars, but close enough.

This is pretty much what I was expecting.  I never expected any sort of crash or malfunction like some of you did since that would mean a libertarian society was fallible.

I suppose its possible this ride will have some significance later in the story.

Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 10, 2011, 02:32:49 am
I suppose its possible this ride will have some significance later in the story.
Today's page makes it obvious how things will develop.

Babette and Reggie will make rejuv choices that will make them unrecognizable to each other. Perhaps Babette will be black, and Reggie white - since this is apparently a post-racism society. There will be a big earthquake on Mars that prevents them from meeting afterward normally; instead, they both participate in rescuing people trapped by the earthquake... in that very roller-coaster ride we've just been following, and which gave us the background to follow the rescue operations.

This is just one of a million possibilities - and since I know my cliches, but I'm no writer, it's unlikely to be exactly what's coming up - but I have faith that there will be interesting stuff coming. As I've followed this comic from the very beginning, I do have reason for trust.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 10, 2011, 07:24:24 am
[Babette and Reggie will make rejuv choices that will make them unrecognizable to each other. Perhaps Babette will be black, and Reggie white - since this is apparently a post-racism society. There will be a big earthquake on Mars that prevents them from meeting afterward normally; instead, they both participate in rescuing people trapped by the earthquake... in that very roller-coaster ride we've just been following, and which gave us the background to follow the rescue operations.

Nice. Not at all what is in store for our protagonists, but very creative plotting.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mellyrn on March 10, 2011, 07:26:08 am
Quote
I suppose its possible this ride will have some significance later in the story.

Might.  I enjoyed it for its own sake.  Look, I love roller coasters, and I will never be able to take that particular ride, nor anything close.  I may one day forget most of the details of this story when it's all done, but that vicarious coaster ride I know will be with me for the rest of my life.  I am grateful to those who imagined this ride for sharing it with me.

And I thank you, GW, for providing me with the occasion to tell them so in public.  I might have neglected to do so, otherwise.

Quote
I never expected any sort of crash or malfunction like some of you did since that would mean a libertarian society was fallible.

Sooo, the only way you'll think EFT is giving a fair and realistic treatment of AnCap is if it writes how the AnCap society must fail; anything going right for them is presenting "infallibility".  Talk about assuming your conclusions!  Dear gods, they let you teach impressionable young minds?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mellyrn on March 10, 2011, 09:42:10 am
I once had a large-animal veterinarian as a neighbor.  One day, returning cold, wet, and muddy from work, he snarled that he was going to write a book of vet adventures himself and tell it like it really is, not all sugar-coated the way James Herriott (of All Creatures Great and Small fame) told it!

My jaw dropped.  Herriott did write very cheerfully, as one who obviously loved his work -- and he told many a tale of being pulled from a warm bed to, say, go lie in icy February mud, up to the armpit in bovine vagina getting his arm painfully squeezed in her labor contractions, trying to save a calf (not always successfully).

Herriott never gave me the impression that it was all sunshine and roses; far from it, I knew I'd never hack it if I had to do his job.

My neighbor, being a dyspeptic sort, apparently couldn't handle the idea of someone loving the job, and so he misrepresented the love as "sugar-coating".

When we firmly hold a given viewpoint, we seldom enjoy stories that challenge or defy our views.  It takes serious intellectual integrity to recognize our own bias.  I'd give GW points for reading EFT at all, except I'm not sure if he's more looking for a mental workout, or for a target upon which to vent.  I'd find the difference in whether the objections are material or emotional.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 10, 2011, 10:51:25 am
Nice. Not at all what is in store for our protagonists, but very creative plotting.
Thank you, but I was trying hard to avoid accidentally spoiling things by picking the most overused cliché that the current strip could have potentially hinted at.

Torn between two lovers who happen to be the same person... or, to use a genuine musical example, the Piña Colada song (even though the causative situation is not the same; they're still just getting to know each other, not in a marriage grown stale).

Let's just say that I am capable of visiting TV Tropes, spending about five minutes or so clicking on a few links, and then returning to what I was browsing before, without any great effort.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Brugle on March 10, 2011, 11:31:49 am
I once had a large-animal veterinarian as a neighbor.  One day, returning cold, wet, and muddy from work, he snarled that he was going to write a book of vet adventures himself and tell it like it really is, not all sugar-coated the way James Herriott (of All Creatures Great and Small fame) told it!

My jaw dropped.  Herriott did write very cheerfully, as one who obviously loved his work -- and he told many a tale of being pulled from a warm bed to, say, go lie in icy February mud, up to the armpit in bovine vagina getting his arm painfully squeezed in her labor contractions, trying to save a calf (not always successfully).

Herriott never gave me the impression that it was all sunshine and roses; far from it, I knew I'd never hack it if I had to do his job.

My neighbor, being a dyspeptic sort, apparently couldn't handle the idea of someone loving the job, and so he misrepresented the love as "sugar-coating".

When we firmly hold a given viewpoint, we seldom enjoy stories that challenge or defy our views.  It takes serious intellectual integrity to recognize our own bias.  I'd give GW points for reading EFT at all, except I'm not sure if he's more looking for a mental workout, or for a target upon which to vent.  I'd find the difference in whether the objections are material or emotional.

I enjoy the personal anecdotes that illustrate your points, whether I agree with you (the usual case) or not.  Thank you.

[ADDED:] Decades ago I gave my sisters copies of Tracy Kidder's The Soul of a New Machine, which I thought showed the same sort of joy that I felt in my job.  I wonder if they thought that I was just sugar-coating the long hours?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 10, 2011, 05:15:16 pm
I have no ax to grind with AnCap.  I never heard of it before I read this comic.  I will say the author tends to paint it in the most attractive light as is his right.  I don't have a problem with that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a reader making this observation.  If anyone thinks my making this observation means I am a bad person or teacher that’s ok too.

In addition I believe heroes without flaws tend to create a weaker story.  But that is my opinion and the author is under no obligation to take it seriously.

I thought the coaster would not break down, as some others did because the author rarely, if ever, shows any aspect of AnCap society as anything less than extremely competent.  He is under no obligation to do otherwise and again I have no problem with this. 

But it is the truth.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: sam on March 10, 2011, 07:03:08 pm
In addition I believe heroes without flaws tend to create a weaker story.  But that is my opinion and the author is under no obligation to take it seriously.

Also, his good guys are so virtuous, non violent, and non judgmental that they cannot deal effectively with three low life pirates (spaceship hijackers).  Instead of holding a five minute trial on video record, then throwing the pirates out the airlock, they save the pirates souls.  How would they deal effectively with a wealthy, influential, and seemingly respectable criminal with lots of guns and lawyers?  How would they deal effectively with a pirate problem on the scale of the one we have in the Indian ocean?  That lot need to be hung from the yardarm, and in space, you would need to throw them out the airlock.

We have seen one wealthy and powerful anarchist in this story - rich like Bill Gates, yet a big fan of open source, a great benefactor.  I would have found much more believable rich guys like the Ayn Rand heroes in "Atlas Shrugged".   Hank Rearden says in the movie trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrDGmuqctvY)  "My only goal is to make money".   And Rand had a plentiful supply of rich and powerful villains as well as rich heroes.  A rich hero makes for a feeble story unless you have a rich and powerful villain.


Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 10, 2011, 07:33:36 pm
A MOVIE!

I had no idea it was coming, they will probably trash it, dumb it down, do it no justice. Even with She Herself on the set the Fountainhead movie was so so at best, but still, it is good.

Thanks Sam

Yes I do remember the big steaming stinking pile labeled Starship Troopers
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 10, 2011, 07:36:35 pm
I thought the coaster would not break down, as some others did because the author rarely, if ever, shows any aspect of AnCap society as anything less than extremely competent.

I write about individuals. Some are competent, some of them are less so. Their are true bad guys and heroes. EFT is not a morally ambiguous French movie. If you prefer morally ambiguous characters, well, I suggest you go to more arty French films.

The coaster did not break down, because that wasn't the story I was writing. I certainly would have had no problem writing that story. Shit happens, in AnCap societies just as much as anywhere else. An upcoming story, ERROR AND TRIAL, will address a fatal rush to judgment on the part of one of our EFT characters. I have no problem writing about market anarchists getting it wrong. In the current CHRISTMAS WAR, one of the good guys, doesn't have clean hands. And remember, Reggie has a past.

BTW, Mars is not a pure AnCap society and there are "outie" enclaves that aren't AnCap at all. We have already mentioned in passing, the Martian enclaves of "Lenin's Hammer" (communist) and Nya Darra Adam Khel (clan/tribal). I have a story in mind about Vesta, which will probably be governed by something like New England town hall meetings. Technically, Mars is a Heathian meta-anarchy. So keep your pants on, Glenn, you ain't seen nothing yet.  :)
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 10, 2011, 10:11:50 pm
Keep my pants on?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 10, 2011, 10:52:11 pm
Keep my pants on?

Oh my, you're not familiar with that old idiom? I'm shocked, simply shocked:

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/keep+your+pants+on.html
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 11, 2011, 06:32:43 am
"There's an AI to take over if I screw up"? Them's famous last words, if you ask me.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: macsnafu on March 11, 2011, 08:47:13 am
I thought the saying was "keep your shirt on."

And now Reggie wants to take Babbette for a ride.  Heh-heh-heh.  He probably disengaged the AI.

Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: terry_freeman on March 11, 2011, 09:07:41 am
It was "keep your pants on" or "hold your horses" in my day.

If roller coasters often break down, they lose money. Where's the profit in that? Better to design a system which is reliable and cheap to operate.

As mentioned earlier, given the large capital investment, one wants to maximize the difference "revenues-costs". However much anti-capitalists may think that this translates to "Screw maintenance! Let it break down!", these sad armchair theorists would never make good entrepreneurs. Letting it break down involves direct costs - fixing the problem post-crash is much more expensive than preventative maintenance, in the same way that changing the oil is cheaper than replacing a broken crankshaft. They also have to pay off damages to those injured. Last, and most important, once reputation is damaged, ridership numbers and revenues will fall. The surest way to destroy one's business is to try to take advantage of one's customers.

That said, people sometimes do make mistakes, even in an AnCap society.

I find it amusing that Reggie is unhappy in a roller coaster, but quite ready to take the wheel of an archaic marsbuggy.

I do find AI drivers to be quite believable. Google is already field-testing the concept, and making great progress. Give us a few decades more of technological innovation, and I expect "Car, Take me home." will become the norm.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: macsnafu on March 11, 2011, 09:18:39 am
It was "keep your pants on" or "hold your horses" in my day.
"Hold your horses" I'm quite familiar with.  Even "Whoa, Nellie!"

Quote
If roller coasters often break down, they lose money. Where's the profit in that? Better to design a system which is reliable and cheap to operate.

As mentioned earlier, given the large capital investment, one wants to maximize the difference "revenues-costs". However much anti-capitalists may think that this translates to "Screw maintenance! Let it break down!", these sad armchair theorists would never make good entrepreneurs. Letting it break down involves direct costs - fixing the problem post-crash is much more expensive than preventative maintenance, in the same way that changing the oil is cheaper than replacing a broken crankshaft. They also have to pay off damages to those injured. Last, and most important, once reputation is damaged, ridership numbers and revenues will fall. The surest way to destroy one's business is to try to take advantage of one's customers.
Excellent point.  Preventative maintenance usually is cheaper, although accidents, while less likely, could still happen.
Quote
I find it amusing that Reggie is unhappy in a roller coaster, but quite ready to take the wheel of an archaic marsbuggy.
Some people are just more comfortable when they are in control of the conveyance.  This could be a sticking point in the relationship between Reggie and Babbette, but maybe not, if she likes being taken for a ride.
Quote
I do find AI drivers to be quite believable. Google is already field-testing the concept, and making great progress. Give us a few decades more of technological innovation, and I expect "Car, Take me home." will become the norm.
Especially if they've had one too many.  It can't be considered drunk driving if the car is doing the driving, after all.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 11, 2011, 10:07:06 am
Thanks for bringing back the Dymaxion Car, good olde Bucky tech.

They made what, 2 or 3 of them. One got wrecked and I saw one in a museum maybe 30 years ago. Now is there a Dymaxion bathroom aboard too?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: J Thomas on March 11, 2011, 11:09:49 am

If roller coasters often break down, they lose money. Where's the profit in that? Better to design a system which is reliable and cheap to operate.

I have a nephew who really likes roller coasters, and often I am the only one who will go with him. So I've seen a little bit about them.

He sits beside me and screams. He says he likes being scared. Of course he doesn't really think it's dangerous, not like playing chicken hoping the other driver will stop.

While he screams I notice whatever I can of what's going on and how I feel about it. Roller coasters make regular clicking noises, and sometimes the clicks are a little bit irregular. Sometimes the car lurches just a little bit, or falls an inch or two. I think this is designed to give the impression that it is rickety and poorly constructed, so it will feel more dangerous.

We went to Disney World for him to do roller coasters. Nobody but me would do the Space Mountain with him. It looked all smooth and futuristic. But riding at the front of the car we could see the same oldfashioned dinky wooden-looking ties under the car between the rails. It made the same clicking noises -- except at one part going up I thought they had loudspeakers making extra loud clicking noises to enhance the experience. It did the same little lurches and falls, as if it was rickety and poorly constructed. I guess they didn't want to change a winning formula.

Of course they want roller coasters to be reliable. But I think they want to give the impression that they are not reliable, so riders will like them more.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 11, 2011, 11:20:49 am
Didn't Disney have a little bit of an, oops, rider decapitation a while back?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: J Thomas on March 11, 2011, 11:26:57 am
Didn't Disney have a little bit of an, oops, rider decapitation a while back?

I don't know. I quickly found a couple of incidents where riders dropped things which injured other riders.

http://www.themeparkinsider.com/reviews/walt_disney_world%27s_magic_kingdom/accidents/
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Brugle on March 11, 2011, 01:23:26 pm
It can't be considered drunk driving if the car is doing the driving, after all.
It could.  Many people have been charged with drunk driving for sleeping it off in a parked car, at least once in a car that couldn't start.  Someone was charged with drunk driving for walking a bicycle across his own yard.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 11, 2011, 04:41:09 pm
Oh good.  Now that the coaster ride is over we get a car ride.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: sams on March 11, 2011, 04:42:28 pm
Oh good.  Now that the coaster ride is over we get a car ride.

You should at least take a lesson of romanticist from the strip
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 11, 2011, 04:46:51 pm
You'll like this car Glenn, it's built and steers backwards from normal. The rear wheel pivots and it goes in tight little circles. Just like some of our regulars here.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 11, 2011, 04:47:10 pm
Quote
You should at least take a lesson of romanticist from the strip

I'm sorry, what?

Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 11, 2011, 04:50:00 pm
You'll like this car Glenn, it's built and steers backwards from normal. The rear wheel pivots and it goes in tight little circles. Just like some of our regulars here.

It looks like a cool car.  The coaster was cool too.  I'm just hoping we dont' get a two week strip about bumpy care rids in Spaaaaaace. 

I want to get back to the real story on Ceres.


Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 11, 2011, 04:51:41 pm
Oh my, you're not familiar with that old idiom? I'm shocked, simply shocked:>>>>

I know another idiom you might be familar with. 
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: sams on March 11, 2011, 04:52:14 pm
Quote
You should at least take a lesson of romanticist from the strip

I'm sorry, what?



Romantic feels from the strip ... You never drove your girl somewhere ?  ::)
You'll like this car Glenn, it's built and steers backwards from normal. The rear wheel pivots and it goes in tight little circles. Just like some of our regulars here.

It looks like a cool car.  The coaster was cool too.  I'm just hoping we dont' get a two week strip about bumpy care rids in Spaaaaaace.  

I want to get back to the real story on Ceres.





Sandy have a solution for these problems : Buy the comic, or space the reading ... I have intencionally left out 2 month that I will read from the hard copy
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 11, 2011, 04:53:05 pm
Translation,
kissy, kissy, smooch, smooch, passionate staring into each others' eyes and farting in bed is still cute. Ro-mans-ugh

Me want Ceres back too but I am a Bucky Fuller tech fan and I want to see where this is going.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 11, 2011, 10:14:36 pm
Quote
Sandy have a solution for these problems : Buy the comic, or space the reading ... I have intencionally left out 2 month that I will read from the hard copy

I'm sorry, what?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: sams on March 12, 2011, 01:35:23 am
Quote
Sandy have a solution for these problems : Buy the comic, or space the reading ... I have intencionally left out 2 month that I will read from the hard copy

I'm sorry, what?

Buy the comic and read it.

Or give it a break for 3 weeks and then come back and read it.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 12, 2011, 07:18:35 am


Buy the comic and read it.

Or give it a break for 3 weeks and then come back and read it.

[/quote]

Thanks for the translation.  I don't buy comics anymore.  Waiting does not appeal to me.  A comic is either worth commiting to or its not, IMO.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mellyrn on March 12, 2011, 10:20:51 am
Quote
Waiting does not appeal to me.

Whining, otoh, obviously does.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: wdg3rd on March 12, 2011, 11:10:47 am

Me want Ceres back too but I am a Bucky Fuller tech fan and I want to see where this is going.

I too was happy to see the Dymaxion Car.  Something that could still modern designers of "green" transportation a thing or two.

Glenn wouldn't know a Dymaxion Car if one ran over him on I-65.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 12, 2011, 11:39:39 am
I too was happy to see the Dymaxion Car.
I was puzzled. It doesn't look like it's in the shape of a cuboctahedron to me.

However, I see this is my mistake; this was what the Dymaxion Car looked like, even if many other things to which Buckminster Fuller gave the name "Dymaxion" were in that particular shape.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 12, 2011, 11:49:30 am
Dymaxion was kind of his personal buzz word for his stuff; marketing never was his strong point.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: wdg3rd on March 12, 2011, 04:45:09 pm
Dymaxion was kind of his personal buzz word for his stuff; marketing never was his strong point.

Actually, by the time he got into his famous domes and such, he had pretty much abandoned the use of the term Dymaxion.  The only thing that really overlapped both was the Dymaxion map.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 12, 2011, 05:10:24 pm
Glenn wouldn't know a Dymaxion Car if one ran over him on I-65.>>>

That is the truth.  Although it does ring a bell.  I seem to remember it on the cover of an old Popular Mechanics or Popular Science.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 12, 2011, 07:11:01 pm
I saw, in fact touched one, ooh, at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago in about 1980. I don't believe it was theirs, but that is a big important museum and Bucky did have a lot of Chicago history behind him. Could be. I do believe the Henry Ford museum in Detroit does own one so maybe a loaner.
Bucky claimed to have met both Capone and Gandhi and ain't that a stretch. I'm luke warm to Gandhi at best but Al. him I'd like to have met.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Plane on March 12, 2011, 09:25:06 pm
I like the Dymaxion Car , it is a good example of how hard it is to sell real innovation.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 13, 2011, 07:53:36 am
What is innovative or special about the car, aside from the odd shape.  I know I could look it up but...
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 13, 2011, 10:31:43 am
Sure, just off the top of my head.

It is a backwards tricycle, steers from the back wheel, the engine is up front between the drive wheels. I believe it was built like an airplane, light and strong.

Imagine it parked next to a 1935 Packard or plugged into a standard gangster movie. It's odd now but then, downright bizzare, the front wheel drive alone blew a few minds. I'm sure Reggie will give us some history but it was so scary nimble pivoting on that tailwheel that it was hard to handle. One crashed and I believe killed the driver and it was shelved.

Until the colonization of Mars anyway.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 13, 2011, 12:47:32 pm
Quote
It is a backwards tricycle,

I have a recumbent bicycle.  I love it.  I was at a bike shop a few years ago and the owner let me try a bike with two wheels in front and one in back.  I forgets its name.  It was very low to the ground and a lot of fun.  But if you tried to come to a sudden stop the back wheel came into the air in a rather sickening way.  I would have bought it anyway but my wife said no.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 13, 2011, 01:16:39 pm
Much the same, I am sure all will be explained.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: wdg3rd on March 13, 2011, 02:33:27 pm
Much the same, I am sure all will be explained.

The accident which "shelved" the Dymaxion Car due to bad press involved a drunken Chicago politician.  Aspects of corruption, press access, false cover story.  Chicago hasn't changed much in the past century.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 13, 2011, 03:42:31 pm
So, it still has the best pizza this side of Naples.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 13, 2011, 05:00:01 pm
Sure, just off the top of my head.

It is a backwards tricycle, steers from the back wheel, the engine is up front between the drive wheels. I believe it was built like an airplane, light and strong.

Not so. The engine was in the rear. Since it powered only the single, steerable wheel, no differential was needed. The two front wheels just free-wheeled.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Plane on March 13, 2011, 07:50:51 pm
Sure, just off the top of my head.

It is a backwards tricycle, steers from the back wheel, the engine is up front between the drive wheels. I believe it was built like an airplane, light and strong.

Not so. The engine was in the rear. Since it powered only the single, steerable wheel, no differential was needed. The two front wheels just free-wheeled.

Paralell parking and tight turns become fun to watch.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 13, 2011, 08:09:39 pm
Quote
Not so. The engine was in the rear. Since it powered only the single, steerable wheel, no differential was needed. The two front wheels just free-wheeled.

That seems like it would be a little twitchy.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 13, 2011, 09:10:22 pm
CORRECTION: The Dymaxion car had a rear mounted engine, but power was delivered to the front wheels via a reversed Ford driveshaft and differential. My error.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 14, 2011, 04:06:44 pm
But where does a Martian one keep its engine/turbine/reactor/fuel cells?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 14, 2011, 04:58:08 pm
But where does a Martian one keep its engine/turbine/reactor/fuel cells?

The original Dymaxion car was over 20 feet long and could carry 11 passengers, so plenty of room. Today, it would probably be called the Dymaxion mini-van. So the works would be in the rear and the head would probably be back there too.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 14, 2011, 06:00:44 pm
I still don't understand the superiority of this car.  Front wheel drive is nice but that does not require such a radical design.  One wheel in the back?  Whats the point?  With 11 seats who is this car meant for, the Waltons?  Having said that it does have a cool look, but it is practical?
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: NeitherRuleNorBeRuled on March 14, 2011, 06:14:42 pm
I still don't understand the superiority of this car.  Front wheel drive is nice but that does not require such a radical design.  One wheel in the back?  Whats the point?  With 11 seats who is this car meant for, the Waltons?  Having said that it does have a cool look, but it is practical?

An 11 passenger car with a turning radius of one car length, 30mpg fuel efficiency, and a top speed of 120mph using early 1930's materials and engineering?  Nope, nothing special about this car.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: GlennWatson on March 14, 2011, 09:00:38 pm
Quote
An 11 passenger car with a turning radius of one car length, 30mpg fuel efficiency, and a top speed of 120mph using early 1930's materials and engineering?  Nope, nothing special about this car.

No need for sarcasm.  I was just asking.  Here is my opinion.

+ Eleven passengers is too big for a family car.  and the oblong shap still makes no sense to me.  Is it really that areodynamic?
+ 30 mpg is nice but is it real?  I see a lot of claims from cars companies about great mileage that turn out to be not true. 
+ 120 mph.  I kinda doubt it.
+ The turning radius is nice but I still say the single wheel would make it twitchy, especially at high speeds. 
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 15, 2011, 12:06:27 am
The fact that most of the car's weight rests on the one rear wheel is generally considered a flaw in the design.

As it had a relatively small engine, though, and light construction, the gas mileage claim is plausible.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 15, 2011, 12:20:30 am
Not so small an engine.
Wikipedia says "Drive power was provided by a rear-mounted Ford V8 engine" A gutless one by later standards but no shrimp weight wise.

This is cool, a drawing of the layout.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Dymaxion_car_illustration.jpg
from this page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-engine,_front-wheel_drive_layout
Hopefully the bathroom was of the dymaxion house type as seen here.
http://www.thirteen.org/bucky/bathroom.html
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 15, 2011, 12:28:11 am
Hopefully the bathroom was of the dymaxion house type
While fixed nitrogen is valuable, night soil is inappropriate for composting for epidemiological reasons.

Perhaps there are methods of thermal and chemical processing that would totally sterilize human wastes without destroying their fixed nitrogen content... and which would also not be excessively energy intensive. Given the limited processing we tolerate for sewage before discharging it into rivers, I suppose that is possible.

The future will be wonderful - we will have plentiful energy, so that we can produce our drinking water from rivers and oceans in a sensible and safe way... with mass spectrometers.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 15, 2011, 12:50:28 am
Horribly blunt here but if you can sterilize food, as in a canner, you can do the same with "droppings". Lovely word, that. And leave the vitamins intact. Even boiling water temps would do fine. Most likely though, boat or RV type holding tanks pumped out at base.

blathering on
Two big new streilization techs for water are ozone generators and tanning bed type UV lights. Copper or silver in a water tank supposedly helps too. The olde timers used to keep a trout in the farms' cistern to be sure the water was safe enough for the fish and the people, so I hear.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: mellyrn on March 15, 2011, 07:18:40 am
Quote
night soil is inappropriate for composting for epidemiological reasons.[....]Perhaps there are methods of thermal and chemical processing that would totally sterilize human wastes without destroying their fixed nitrogen content... and which would also not be excessively energy intensive.

The Humanure Handbook (http://humanurehandbook.com/), free download.  When composting is done as is normally recommended, with "turning" the compost every so often, the interior does not heat up enough to pasteurize.  If you leave it alone, it does.  Which means that this method is also conservative of simple manpower, let alone anything beyond that.  I haven't got my own system set up yet, but it's still early spring here.

Please note that the author has had his stuff tested for microcritter content.

Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 15, 2011, 11:36:47 am
The fact that most of the car's weight rests on the one rear wheel is generally considered a flaw in the design.

HOW POLITICIANS LIE: One technique is use of the passive voice. Instead of saying "I made mistakes," the evasive pol says, "Mistakes were made." Thus obscuring the maker of the mistakes. Likewise, when someone is talking out of their hat, instead of taking responsibility for their own opinion, they say, "The fact that most of the car's weight rests on the one rear wheel is generally considered a flaw in the design."

Now I realize that Q could be correct. If so, I am sure he will be happy to give us several URLs that support his indirect assertion. Q, you have the floor.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 15, 2011, 11:42:30 am
mellyrn thanks, I downloaded it.

I am working with a small scale version of this sort of thing. I have blathered on about where and how too much already but it is beyond theoretical. For concrete practical untheoretical fact, ya just can't beat plumbing.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 15, 2011, 10:35:47 pm
Now I realize that Q could be correct. If so, I am sure he will be happy to give us several URLs that support his indirect assertion. Q, you have the floor.
Searching through sites on the Dymaxion Car, I found one (http://users.design.ucla.edu/~djvmc/24/bucky/car.html) of the ones I looked at before that probably led me to this impression.

It seemed reasonable to me that if the car's engine is in the back, and there's only one wheel in the back, weight distribution would be a problem - at least for tire wear. I will admit that this weight distribution would seem, if anything, beneficial for steering.

In any event, it has had time to dawn on me how Reggie could, not being local to Mars, make an error which no AI will save him from. It would be only embarrassing, not life threatening, unless he also runs out of gas.

Failure to note that the Valles Marineris lies between one and one's destination.

Pressurized highways between domed cities, or other, less famous, Martian topographical features, which are also natural barriers to ground transport, are also possible.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: spudit on March 16, 2011, 11:06:44 am
One thing the D car was not was a jeep. The wheels are a might small. Still cool to see it.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: SandySandfort on March 16, 2011, 07:18:48 pm
Failure to note that the Valles Marineris lies between one and one's destination.

Yeah, you're right. Then it would the roller coaster all over again and you know who would start bitching and moaning.  ::)
Title: strip 666
Post by: AlpineBob on March 28, 2011, 07:27:50 am
I hadn't heard of it before, but I found the wiki on vernix caseosa to be quite interesting.
Admittedly wiki is a non-safe reference, but I'm not durious enough to dig around for medical refs.
Anyway, assuming no one is maliciously mucking it up or accidentally messing it up, I don't think it would really form the basis of a rejuv formula.  For one thing, it isn't generally a liquid: "In Latin vernix means varnish and caseosa means cheesy."
I heard an interview on NPR today with a fellow from a company developing a liquid oxy-carrier.  He claimed it carried 4 times the oxygen of a blood cell in one/thousandth the space.  Uses being investigated include intravenous into the brain in cases of blood-flow interuption to to injury, and combating bends (I think the method he discussed involved use of a hyperbaric chamber as opposed to pressurized one - the rationale being this method would only be used if insuffiecient pressure chamber space were available during a deep-sea accident retrieval).  He seemed very proud of a 90% survival rate using this method on animal tests. I wouldn't be so sanguine about a 10% fatality rate, but I digress...
My point is that this stuff seems a very viable start to a rejuv system, since he also claimed, as a side benefit, that the extra oxygen would help reduce wrinkles. 
I know it's a quibble; what you call the stuff isn't really important compared to the story effects, but I thought I'd mention it.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Plane on March 28, 2011, 11:04:22 am
  An injectable remedy for the bends would be very welcome to divers!


   The Bends really hurt.


     That stuff is likely to become a forbidden substance for athletes tho.
Title: Re: strip 666
Post by: SandySandfort on March 28, 2011, 01:19:56 pm
I hadn't heard of it before, but I found the wiki on vernix caseosa to be quite interesting. I don't think it would really form the basis of a rejuv formula.  For one thing, it isn't generally a liquid: "In Latin vernix means varnish and caseosa means cheesy."

The rejuv fluid is "a synthetic form of vernix caseosa..." emphasis added. It just protects the skin and acts as a substrate to contain the millions of nanobots that do the actual work. However, you have my permission to mental replace it with amniotic fluid.  :)

I am just gratified to see that you looked up at all. I'm sure most readers didn't.
Title: Re: strip 666
Post by: wdg3rd on March 28, 2011, 05:14:38 pm

I am just gratified to see that you looked up at all. I'm sure most readers didn't.

One or two were familiar with the term and didn't have to.
Title: Re: strip 666
Post by: quadibloc on March 28, 2011, 05:23:12 pm
I am just gratified to see that you looked up at all. I'm sure most readers didn't.
I hadn't, but I was considering doing so eventually. However, I would have spelled it wrong. I was expecting that the nanobots themselves were synthetic worms - even if, not having looked it up, I didn't know they would be cheesy ones.

In other words, I'd have tried to look up vermix caseosa.
Title: Re: strip 666
Post by: SandySandfort on March 28, 2011, 08:08:31 pm
In other words, I'd have tried to look up vermix caseosa.

Better than vermix casserole.  :D
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: happycrow on March 31, 2011, 08:21:45 am
My Hungarian relatives would find a way to make even that tasty.

::has images of little tiny vermix/blood-sausage fusion dishes, served with sauerkraut, mustard, and horseradish::
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: quadibloc on March 31, 2011, 08:24:59 am
My Hungarian relatives would find a way to make even that tasty.

::has images of little tiny vermix/blood-sausage fusion dishes, served with sauerkraut, mustard, and horseradish::
Klingons reflect aspects of several Earth cultures; I guess we can add one more to the list.
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: happycrow on April 01, 2011, 08:00:07 am
Explains the grumpiness -- 10 million people who are all up early in the morning, none of whom are "morning people..."
Title: Re: BEST. ROLLERCOASTER. EVER.
Post by: Scott on April 03, 2011, 06:11:35 pm
That sounds like my former commute from Riverside to Irvine when I was working for Interplay. <rimshot>