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Online Comics => Escape From Terra => Topic started by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 12:32:53 am

Title: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 12:32:53 am
Those Who Can, Do.
Those Who Can't, Troll.

I'd like to say that writing is hard, but for me, it isn't. I'm good at it and I enjoy it. Not everyone likes my stuff, but that's okay. I cannot be--nor do I intend to try to be--all things to all people. So here are my priority:

1. I have to like what I write. If I don't, I work on it until I do.
2. I want my editor/publisher to like it. Those are the people who cough up the money for my work. Nothing says “I like your writing” like coin of the realm. I have written for a number of publications, such as Wired and the LA Times. They seemed to appreciate my writing enough to pay me hundreds of dollars for my articles.
3. I really want to please my fans. When I get an “attaboy” from Terry, Mellyrn or several other readers on the Forum who clearly “get it,” I am happy.
4. When the general readers like my work enough to keep EFT almost continually in the Top 100 Web Comics (out of thousands), for over two years, that tells me I am meeting my obligation to them.

After that, I do not give a rat's rump what the naysayers think or say. I have done my job for the people who count. The writer wannabe who think they are fit to judge me, yet never seem to produce anything of value themselves, are just envious; nothing more.

Well, not exactly nothing more. My pop psychology take on it is that in addition to being envious, they are sad, powerless little creatures, who try to create the illusion of competence by criticizing their betters. They attempt to tear down that which they are incapable of matching, much less surpassing.

So if you don't like my stories, my villains or anything else, fine, understand this: I do not care. If you think you can do better, knock yourself out. I dare you to find a publisher for your “superior” prose. In the meantime, you are cordially invited to kiss my rosy red derrière.  :-*
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: orthzar on February 27, 2011, 12:58:39 am
I see it this way, if you don't write, then nobody will give you any credit, but, if you do write, then trolls will ooze out of the walls just to complain.   And when you get a good reputation for your writing, you will get complaints from loyalists and trolls alike if you stop writing.

So keep writing!
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Holt on February 27, 2011, 04:59:32 am
You're writing anarchist propaganda when most webcomic readers are in Gen Y who have an innate hatred of authority. Of course it's going to be popular.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: GlennWatson on February 27, 2011, 07:08:53 am
Mr. Sandfort, if you are going to set up a message board about your comic then don't get upset when you don't get an uninterrupted stream of praise. 

I am a teacher.  Many people complain about teachers in general.  And I have had more than a few complaints about my teaching in particular.  I don't assume these complaints are from frustrated wannabe teachers.

I have to say this is not the first time I have encountered your attitude.  Comic book writers have notoriously thin skins.  You sound just like John Byrne in that first post.  He just bans anyone who disagrees with him as do most comic writers.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: mellyrn on February 27, 2011, 08:17:28 am
Quote
Mr. Sandfort, if you are going to set up a message board

He didn't.  If I've understood correctly, his publishers did.

Quote
I don't assume these complaints are from frustrated wannabe teachers.

Teachers have no social cachet.  I for one think that's a real shame, but there it is:  people just don't flock to 'cons to get the autographs of their favorite teachers.

Quote
[Byrne] just bans anyone who disagrees with him

Sandy can't.  It's not his board.  He just posts here sometimes same as the rest of us.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 09:05:49 am
I see it this way, if you don't write, then nobody will give you any credit, but, if you do write, then trolls will ooze out of the walls just to complain.   And when you get a good reputation for your writing, you will get complaints from loyalists and trolls alike if you stop writing.

So keep writing!

Bingo! Thanks for the encouragement. Don't worry, I am not discouraged by the gnats. (We all know who they are.)   ;D
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 09:23:29 am
WatsonGlenn, I see you don't get it. Perhaps I can help.

Mr. Sandfort, if you are going to set up a message board about your comic then don't get upset when you don't get an uninterrupted stream of praise.
 

A) You do not know what you are talking about. I have set up no message board.
B) I am not upset by a lack of praise. I do not care for unsupported sniping for the purpose of sniping. Constructive criticism and disagreement are fine by me.

I am a teacher.  Many people complain about teachers in general.  And I have had more than a few complaints about my teaching in particular.  I don't assume these complaints are from frustrated wannabe teachers.

C) I wouldn't know. When I was teaching advanced English in Costa Rica, I always got the highest praise. Perhaps you aren't a very good teacher. Most teachers are hacks, so I am not surprised they get complaints. Home schooling demonstrates that professional teachers are superfluous to basic learning. The "unschooling" movement, makes it clear that most so called "teachers" are destructive to the learning process.

I have to say this is not the first time I have encountered your attitude.  Comic book writers have notoriously thin skins.  You sound just like John Byrne in that first post.  He just bans anyone who disagrees with him as do most comic writers.

D) <shrug> "Thin-skinned" is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer to think that I am dedicated to truth and reason. Your priorities may be different.

E) If banning everyone who disagrees with me is your definition of thin skinned, then you lose. I have neither the power nor the inclination to ban anyone. I just reserve the right to set the record straight or completely ignore fools and trolls.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: sams on February 27, 2011, 09:31:55 am
I really love the ''All your talents belong to US'' from Holt and Watson ... thus think themselves able to give orders.

First the whole '' show the other side of the issue'' is completely is ludicrous, does you see the ''other side'' in the communist of America magazine ?

Our enemies already spend a lot of resources to undermine our message, why should we waste ours to do the same ?

Secondly what Sandy is doing is primarily telling a story, to open the imagination and question what we though was possible. It might be an easy read for Free marketers, an intriguing read for a novice, but it will never be an encyclopaedic.

If you want in deep analize and discussion go read the Libertarian Papers, mises.org or the Cato institute if you can't take heavy doses of liberty ideology.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Corydon on February 27, 2011, 09:38:28 am
So if you don't like my stories, my villains or anything else, fine, understand this: I do not care. If you think you can do better, knock yourself out. I dare you to find a publisher for your “superior” prose. In the meantime, you are cordially invited to kiss my rosy red derrière.  :-*

Obviously you do care; otherwise you wouldn't have posted not just one, but two all-capped-titled cris de coeur (and then responded to somebody else.)

I mean, I sympathize with you, but you have to decide.  Either you care about what your critics say, in which case you engage them.  Or you don't, in which case you ignore them.  You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 10:22:36 am
Obviously you do care; otherwise you wouldn't have posted not just one, but two all-capped-titled cris de coeur (and then responded to somebody else.)

Oh, is that what that means? Thanks for the heads-up. Two titles = caring. Got it.  ::)

I mean, I sympathize with you, but you have to decide.  Either you care about what your critics say, in which case you engage them.  Or you don't, in which case you ignore them.  You can't have it both ways.

I believe in a world of possibilities and choices. I do not agree with your black-and-white dichotomy. So I don't see any rational reason why I cannot have it both ways. I will engage with respectful critics who can support their positions with reason and evidence. I will put down obnoxious fools and trolls, or ignore them, as my mood dictates. Works for me, but of course, YMMV.

Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Holt on February 27, 2011, 10:45:57 am
I really love the ''All your talents belong to US'' from Holt and Watson ... thus think themselves able to give orders.

Honestly I just want to help him develop as a writer. He actually does have a knack but he's not developing it. He's no Ellis or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but he's still a good writer, he just needs to shake the habit of writing one dimensional characters.

First the whole '' show the other side of the issue'' is completely is ludicrous, does you see the ''other side'' in the communist of America magazine ?

So because one thing is shit all others must be shit?
If you don't aspire to do better what is the point?

Our enemies already spend a lot of resources to undermine our message, why should we waste ours to do the same ?

See encouraging examination and discussion about your philosophy and its flaws shouldn't undermine your philosophy. If it does then there is something seriously wrong with your philosophy which must be addressed.


Secondly what Sandy is doing is primarily telling a story, to open the imagination and question what we though was possible. It might be an easy read for Free marketers, an intriguing read for a novice, but it will never be an encyclopaedic.

Easy read is certainly right. No strain on the old membranes or anything at all to detract from the message of how glorious anarchy is and how evil government is.
But it doesn't need to be encyclopedic. It just needs to examine itself, provide a compelling pair of characters. Give the anarchists some fucking human flaws, they're all dam saints so far.

If you want in deep analize and discussion go read the Libertarian Papers, mises.org or the Cato institute if you can't take heavy doses of liberty ideology.

Libertarians? You do realise those guys are actually advocates of corporate feudalism right?
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: GlennWatson on February 27, 2011, 10:59:44 am
A)   You do not know what you are talking about. I have set up no message board.

I guess this one just magically appeared.  As to your attack on teachers I have heard it before just as you have heard attacks on writers.  See how it works?  In any case I consider this your board.  If you don't want people to complain or criticize the story then say so.  I guarantee I won't do it again.  All I ask is that you stop your whining.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: GlennWatson on February 27, 2011, 11:04:43 am
I really love the ''All your talents belong to US'' from Holt and Watson ... thus think themselves able to give orders.>>>>>

I’m sorry where exactly did I give the impression I was giving orders or that another person’s talents belonged to me.  I was criticizing the story.  As for what your “enemies” do spare me the personal drama.  It’s a story on a web page not the Communist Manifesto.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: GlennWatson on February 27, 2011, 11:15:10 am
I just reserve the right to set the record straight or completely ignore fools and trolls. >>>>

You just can't help yourself can you? 

Your reaction is like deja vu for me.  There must be a class writers take to learn how to talk to posters on the Internet.  You all do it the exact same way.

Your post reminds me of the latest Charlie Sheen rant.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: sams on February 27, 2011, 11:48:13 am
If you want in deep analize and discussion go read the Libertarian Papers, mises.org or the Cato institute if you can't take heavy doses of liberty ideology.

Libertarians? You do realise those guys are actually advocates of corporate feudalism right?

Yes I know, Walter Block is the last thing I can consider and I usually disagree with him. From Stephane Molineux forward I just can't take it any more.

But what is the problem with Intellectual discussion and in deep analysis of what we though to be possible. If you want discussion and such these are the best places for you.

EFT is a COMIC, it is a tale not a in deep philosophical discussion, go read Molineux, Block and Co for discussion and I'm sure they would welcome your loyal opposition.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: quadibloc on February 27, 2011, 12:08:49 pm
I find this comic to be well written and drawn and very entertaining. It is also thought-provoking.

Oh, and there's caring and caring. One can find it annoying when people say bad things about you without considering their opinion of you to be well-founded and worthy of consideration. So using ALL CAPS in the title might mean one cared in the first way without at all implying that one cares in the second way.

Anarcho-capitalism isn't the same as Libertarianism. But they have some things in common, and so some of the same arguments apply against them. I think that the basic philosophy of Libertarianism, or of the Zero-Aggression Principle, is at least a good starting point - and that, instead of taking our current taxes and conscription government system for granted, we (that is, the non-AnCap world) should at least try to have a principled justification for our exceptions to what seems to me to be obviously sound morality.

At the same time, I think that there are at least enough pragmatic objections to AnCap that it's really unlikely to achieve the popularity it needs to happen. I love freedom, and would like to see those who also love freedom... apply their efforts in a way that gets results. Noting where the case for AnCap needs to be firmed up a bit to make it more likely to get a fair hearing... I don't think that is a destructive activity.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 27, 2011, 01:35:25 pm
I find this comic to be well written and drawn and very entertaining. It is also thought-provoking.

Thank you, sir. You area gentleman and a scholar.

Oh, and there's caring and caring. One can find it annoying when people say bad things about you without considering their opinion of you to be well-founded and worthy of consideration. So using ALL CAPS in the title might mean one cared in the first way without at all implying that one cares in the second way.

In any case, I always use caps in my subject lines--posting and e-mails. It is a matter of style, not "caring."

Anarcho-capitalism isn't the same as Libertarianism. But they have some things in common, and so some of the same arguments apply against them. I think that the basic philosophy of Libertarianism, or of the Zero-Aggression Principle, is at least a good starting point - and that, instead of taking our current taxes and conscription government system for granted, we (that is, the non-AnCap world) should at least try to have a principled justification for our exceptions to what seems to me to be obviously sound morality.

At the same time, I think that there are at least enough pragmatic objections to AnCap that it's really unlikely to achieve the popularity it needs to happen. I love freedom, and would like to see those who also love freedom... apply their efforts in a way that gets results. Noting where the case for AnCap needs to be firmed up a bit to make it more likely to get a fair hearing... I don't think that is a destructive activity.

And that, boys and girls, is how it is done. Chaos knows Quadibloc and I often do not see eye to eye, yet he and I are mostly able to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: spudit on February 27, 2011, 02:00:48 pm
Let me clarify the reason for starting the bad guy thread which may have sparked this one.

I have heard a lot of holes in the philosophy mentioned on this board, some are silly, some not. If there really is a flaw which someone as smart as Lenin could exploit, lets consider how people might plug it.

I have heard lots of sniping about predictability and how of course the good guy will always win. Surprise, he will. James Bond always does. Captain Kirk may go through a ship load of security pawns but except for that one movie, twce, he always walks away. Sandy's EFT has a format, but then so did L'amour's westerns and Doyle's detective stories. Deal with it.

Does someone have a real idea about a really good bad guy, then put up or shut up. No, Sandy need not listen to the peanut gallery at all but better one(1) good concept expressed in a productive way than endless chatter about yeah but what if and it's not fair.  I think a smart bad guy would be fun but it is not my place to take over the controls.

It is Sandy's story. Fizz him off enough and he might kill everyone and start over on Triton.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: J Thomas on February 27, 2011, 09:07:26 pm
I really love the ''All your talents belong to US'' from Holt and Watson ... thus think themselves able to give orders.

Honestly I just want to help him develop as a writer.

If that's your goal, then perhaps you might notice which of your attempts seem to do better.

When he responds defensively, there's a fair chance that he is not giving your assistance a good chance to assist him.

So maybe you can look at your results and use them to improve your skill at assisting Sandy improve his writing. I haven't noticed improvement on your part yet, but I wasn't particularly looking for it and so I might have missed it.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Bob G on February 27, 2011, 09:24:36 pm
Honestly I just want to help him develop as a writer. He actually does have a knack but he's not developing it. He's no Ellis or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but he's still a good writer, he just needs to shake the habit of writing one dimensional characters.

Yeah? What are *your* credentials for teaching writing? What have *you* had professionally published? If, as I suspect, the answer to those questions is 'nothing', then where do you get the idea *you* have anything to contribute to Sandy's 'development as a writer'?

And I'm not sure I'd hold Doyle up as an exemplar of the writer's art; there's a difference between 'popular' and 'good'.

Quote
Libertarians? You do realise those guys are actually advocates of corporate feudalism right?

Really? Since there are many flavors of libertarians, I suppose it is remotely possible that *some* may, but not any of the libertarians I know, and I've been on the Minnesota LP executive committee for over a decade in one way or another.

Or is this just another of your 'straw man' devices?
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Plane on February 27, 2011, 09:55:54 pm
  I will admit to a bit of jelosy, I would like to have a webcomic and it makes a great daydream for me.

   But is the author the boss? Yes indeed, if it were not so I would have no jelosy at all.

  The essay at the head of this thread is well said , but I am not wanting to include myself as a destructive influence. I am enjoying the comic as a comic first of all and I would be disapointed if I saw it stop and horrified if it stoped because of some thoughtless comment of mine.

   There is a second purpose of the comic to me , as a series of thought experiments . It is intreguing to discuss them. It is like discussing Ford Mustangs , people who do not like them don't talk about them. I like the ideas and I like discussion of alternatives and choices. Do I expect that the author will change course due to my comments? Nah, I don't expect Ford to make a twelve cylinder Mustang either just because I might say it would be cool. The Author is the decider, if he really needed my assistance the comic probly would not have ever attracted me , but now that I am here are my comments really unwelcome? That I want to comment is because I like the comic , I am energised by the ideas, I like that there is a discussion going on and I want to join in.


I have seen quotes of Asimov and Heinlin and new thoughts I haven't encountered before ,I am haveing a good time ,but I could easily be gotten rid of, if the comic becomes uninteresting I am gone.
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: SandySandfort on February 28, 2011, 08:18:49 am
... I have seen quotes of Asimov and Heinlin and new thoughts I haven't encountered before ,I am haveing a good time ,but I could easily be gotten rid of, if the comic becomes uninteresting I am gone.

Thanks, good post overall. As to the last part, above, you have expressed the readers ultimate power. If enough people find EFT uninteresting, it will be gone with the morning dew. So far the EFT team has kept a critical mass of readers entertained. Some reader feedback has shaped EFT for the better. However, none of pronouncements from self-styled writing experts have changed the strip one iota.

Why? Two reasons:

First, these know-it-alls, know nothing. I have never seen such monumentally ignorance and faulty thinking as has been exhibited by such pitiful losers as Holt and Contrary Guy.

Second, these two and others clearly act without any regard to good faith. They are not trying to elevate the discussion nor offer helpful commentary. Their only raison d'etre is to try to puff themselves up by putting others down. Personally, if I were as pathetically weak, ineffectual and unhappy as these losers, I would just end it all. YMMV.

As it is, I do not need such toxic negativity in my life. That is why I do not read any original posts by these yahoos. If there name is on the post, I just skip over it. (I do enjoy reading their quoted pap second-hand in posts by enlightened readers who do so only to chew these clowns a new one.)  ;D
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: pendothrax on February 28, 2011, 02:34:03 pm
Holt especially has been reminding me of an unfortunate previous acquaintance.  When presented with a well though but broadly encompassing idea, this person would come back with a more concrete and simplistic subset of what i had just said as though this was an new idea that contributed to the conversation.  I bring this up as Holt has stated that someone must be thinking now, a rather condescending comment, after the exact same idea was repeated.   The only change was to make the same idea more simplistic and concrete.  From what i have experienced, the slower the mind, the more concretely an idea must be expressed to be grasped.  Stating that other people are less accomplished mentally because their ideas are not presented in a concrete enough fashion for your mind to grasp does seem to be an ironically intense way to put yourself down in my opinion. 

As for gold and silver as a medium of exchange, evidence from archeology to current psychology shows that gold and silver hold a large mind share in enough people to reasonably retain value as these metals have for thousands of years.  You cannot eat gold, but you can count on finding someone who will exchange food for your gold rather reliably.   
Title: Re: ON WRITING
Post by: Plane on February 28, 2011, 09:18:24 pm
Thanks, good post overall.


Agggh, .. you are killing my humillity , of which I was once so proud.