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Online Comics => Escape From Terra => Topic started by: sams on May 28, 2010, 10:37:15 am

Title: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: sams on May 28, 2010, 10:37:15 am
Hello All,

I have been following the current storyline involving Robyn in the Lunar correction facility and it sounded like a kind of a methafor .... I know that we shouldn't be trying to see what we want in other peoples writing, like Tolkien said, but EFT is really the metaphor of escaping Earth and the statist convention.

The current Robyn storyline is so great because it looks like it treats of the question of self-defense in the absence of legal remedies. For much that Robyn could complain, the truth is that not much she can expect from others and must take matters on her hands. Surely you can say that this is an extreme case of sexual abuse and in the real world such situation don't exist .... but then you remember yourself of Kelo and all the other abuse of individuals property rights and liberty and how even there you raped by the state and have no legal remedy.

The metaphor is also great, because will most critique of libertarian come after us because we are ''Peacenik idiot'' because of the non-aggression principle, this shows that after calm non-aggressive petition have failed, Robyn made use of violence to defend herself and took possession of a weapons, the stick has being short of Gun. like the Founding fathers have said : if you petition write letters and receive no response, what do you do ?

Then the construction of the state, represented in this metaphor by the tower, fail due to poor conception and absorb the state into the lunar vaccuum.

another interesting aspect of the story is the other girl, which seem to represent those who passively let themselves get raped over and over again because there is no legal remedy and that in the general theme of EFT an individual MUST choose to be free

PS : possibly a geek might soon come and say that the moon is geologically inactive and therefore quackes are impossible, but when the gravitational influence of earth and the sun act togueter it might happen
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: Rocketman on May 28, 2010, 10:53:30 am
The current Robyn storyline is so great because it looks like it treats of the question of self-defense in the absence of legal remedies. For much that Robyn could complain, the truth is that not much she can expect from others and must take matters on her hands. Surely you can say that this is an extreme case of sexual abuse and in the real world such situation don't exist .... but then you remember yourself of Kelo and all the other abuse of individuals property rights and liberty and how even there you raped by the state and have no legal remedy.
The law may not have worked in the case of Kelo, but there was justice of a sort.  It seems the pharmaceutical firm didn't put a plant on the acres that were taken by the city and instead of million of dollars in tax revenues, the city of Kelo lost thousands of dollars in taxes from the homeowners that no longer have a house on the property.  Like Earl of the TV show would say "Karma".
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: SandySandfort on May 28, 2010, 12:07:00 pm
I never realized I was so deep.   ;D

Hello All,

I have been following the current storyline involving Robyn in the Lunar correction facility and it sounded like a kind of a methafor .... I know that we shouldn't be trying to see what we want in other peoples writing, like Tolkien said, but EFT is really the metaphor of escaping Earth and the statist convention.

The current Robyn storyline is so great because it looks like it treats of the question of self-defense in the absence of legal remedies. For much that Robyn could complain, the truth is that not much she can expect from others and must take matters on her hands. Surely you can say that this is an extreme case of sexual abuse and in the real world such situation don't exist .... but then you remember yourself of Kelo and all the other abuse of individuals property rights and liberty and how even there you raped by the state and have no legal remedy.

The metaphor is also great, because will most critique of libertarian come after us because we are ''Peacenik idiot'' because of the non-aggression principle, this shows that after calm non-aggressive petition have failed, Robyn made use of violence to defend herself and took possession of a weapons, the stick has being short of Gun. like the Founding fathers have said : if you petition write letters and receive no response, what do you do ?

Then the construction of the state, represented in this metaphor by the tower, fail due to poor conception and absorb the state into the lunar vaccuum.

another interesting aspect of the story is the other girl, which seem to represent those who passively let themselves get raped over and over again because there is no legal remedy and that in the general theme of EFT an individual MUST choose to be free

PS : possibly a geek might soon come and say that the moon is geologically inactive and therefore quackes are impossible, but when the gravitational influence of earth and the sun act togueter it might happen
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: sams on May 29, 2010, 04:48:52 am
The current Robyn storyline is so great because it looks like it treats of the question of self-defense in the absence of legal remedies. For much that Robyn could complain, the truth is that not much she can expect from others and must take matters on her hands. Surely you can say that this is an extreme case of sexual abuse and in the real world such situation don't exist .... but then you remember yourself of Kelo and all the other abuse of individuals property rights and liberty and how even there you raped by the state and have no legal remedy.
The law may not have worked in the case of Kelo, but there was justice of a sort.  It seems the pharmaceutical firm didn't put a plant on the acres that were taken by the city and instead of million of dollars in tax revenues, the city of Kelo lost thousands of dollars in taxes from the homeowners that no longer have a house on the property.  Like Earl of the TV show would say "Karma".

Well this is not so much justice, because there was no reparation of the victim ... it migh have been pleasant and ironic to see, but it didn't make any good to miss Kelo.

Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: wdg3rd on May 29, 2010, 08:28:42 am
I never realized I was so deep.   ;D


It always gets deeper than what you thought you'd step in.  :D
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: terry_freeman on May 30, 2010, 04:22:14 am
Sandy: I never realized I was so deep.

Reminds me of a story which Isaac Asimov told. He was sitting incognito in the back of one of those "sci fi lit" courses, and some of his own novels came to be the topic of discussion. The instructor went on at great length to explain precisely what the author meant to say. Asimov disagreed. The instructor said "You're wrong."

Asimov replied "How can I be wrong? I wrote these books."

The instructor replied "You're still wrong."
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: SandySandfort on May 30, 2010, 10:27:47 am
Sandy: I never realized I was so deep.

Reminds me of a story which Isaac Asimov told. He was sitting incognito in the back of one of those "sci fi lit" courses, and some of his own novels came to be the topic of discussion. The instructor went on at great length to explain precisely what the author meant to say. Asimov disagreed. The instructor said "You're wrong."

Asimov replied "How can I be wrong? I wrote these books."

The instructor replied "You're still wrong."

That's funny!

I do think Sams captured something that was there beneath the surface of what I wrote. However, much of what passes for literary criticism is little more then mental masturbation. It is rarely more than the "Rorschach inkblot" response of the critic.

Libertarian types like to divide the world into "makers" and "takers," but there is a very large third category, "fakers." Most pundits, preachers and self-styled "critics" fall into this category. They don't create anything useful, but neither do they initiate force. At best, they produce intellectual "junk food." At worst, though, their parasitic memes and demagoguery do lead to the initiation of force by others. 
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: quadibloc on May 30, 2010, 07:24:32 pm
Asimov replied "How can I be wrong? I wrote these books."

The instructor replied "You're still wrong."
There was a famous science-fiction story in which a scientist invented a time machine, and brought Shakespeare into the present... and had him enrolled in an English professor's class on Shakespeare. I wonder if this incident inspired it.

Ah, the story is entitled "The Immortal Bard", and, indeed, it was written by Isaac Asimov.
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: sams on May 31, 2010, 07:58:49 am
Sandy: I never realized I was so deep.

Reminds me of a story which Isaac Asimov told. He was sitting incognito in the back of one of those "sci fi lit" courses, and some of his own novels came to be the topic of discussion. The instructor went on at great length to explain precisely what the author meant to say. Asimov disagreed. The instructor said "You're wrong."

Asimov replied "How can I be wrong? I wrote these books."

The instructor replied "You're still wrong."

That's funny!

I do think Sams captured something that was there beneath the surface of what I wrote. However, much of what passes for literary criticism is little more then mental masturbation. It is rarely more than the "Rorschach inkblot" response of the critic.

Yep that funny indeed ;D

Well I emotionally connect with EFT and it make me feel think about stuff ... but I don't pretend to know what is into the author head by what they make me feel inside mine

Libertarian types like to divide the world into "makers" and "takers," but there is a very large third category, "fakers." Most pundits, preachers and self-styled "critics" fall into this category. They don't create anything useful, but neither do they initiate force. At best, they produce intellectual "junk food." At worst, though, their parasitic memes and demagoguery do lead to the initiation of force by others. 

Yes it is ironic that intelectuals which have time to think thanks to the blessings of freedom, go about imagining the dumbest things possible ... just like Keynes said : the words is moved by little less than ideas.

Both Hayek and Sowell expressed this problem in two essays : The pretence of knowledge and intellectual and society ... check them out
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: BeachBumBill on June 05, 2010, 10:27:58 am
I think that the core issue in strips 445 thru 447 is the use of power.  Norm is using the easiest of the power choices.  He uses raw physical power and intimidation to force compliance.  This base power is commonly used everyday by the police.  If you don't do what they tell you to do, they will physically attempt to arrest you and continued resistance results in increased physical force until you submit or you are dead and they win. In a physical fight, cops will never ever give in.

The other end of the power spectrum is a guy like Jim Jones down in Jonestown, Guyana, where he had such complete power and control, when he told people to kill themselves, they willingly drank the Kool-ade and died.  Norm could have been written is way that the he makes the girls submit to screwing him without the physical force. 

As a character, Norm was far too stereotypical in his actions and language.  "Relax my dear and bow to the inevitable" "Give Daddy some sugar"?  Oh puleeze.  Norm could have been so much more threatening by merely curling up on the bed with Carla, and telling Robyn "You know dear, you have a choice.  You can climb into bed with us or you can wish that you had.  Your choice"

Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: wdg3rd on June 05, 2010, 11:39:28 am
As a character, Norm was far too stereotypical in his actions and language.  "Relax my dear and bow to the inevitable" "Give Daddy some sugar"?  Oh puleeze.  Norm could have been so much more threatening by merely curling up on the bed with Carla, and telling Robyn "You know dear, you have a choice.  You can climb into bed with us or you can wish that you had.  Your choice"

Son, that is fully as stereotypical as the one shown.  Any fan of 70s-80s porn or horror movies from that time frame has seen both scenarios over and over.  Stereotypes exist, you have to pick and choose between them.  Making up a new situation in a "I'm gonna fuck you whether you like it or not" isn't easy.  Probably hasn't been a new one since before Homer masturbated himself blind.
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: SandySandfort on June 05, 2010, 01:44:17 pm
Norm could have been written is way that the he makes the girls submit to screwing him without the physical force. 

As a character, Norm was far too stereotypical in his actions and language.  "Relax my dear and bow to the inevitable" "Give Daddy some sugar"?  Oh puleeze.  Norm could have been so much more threatening by merely curling up on the bed with Carla, and telling Robyn "You know dear, you have a choice.  You can climb into bed with us or you can wish that you had.  Your choice"

Norman tried to get Robyn's submission with threats of force, not force. You haven't grokked the essence of William Norman. Think about his "pad" and the way he dresses. Here is a man who prefers not to think of himself as a kinderficking rapist. He is living out a fantasy of being irresistible to women. He got Carla to play the game and probably others. Robyn ruined it. That's when the long knives came out. Yes, he is an evil man, but he is also a pathetic loser.
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: BeachBumBill on June 05, 2010, 03:19:09 pm
I would definitely agree that there has been nothing new since Homer (and or Ovid).   Perhaps my scenario was just as stereotypical as Norm the Thug, but I was thinking more of a enemy that is adored and mindlessly followed so that he/she doesn't have to use threats or intimidation at all. 

To me, a far scarier scenario is where the protag finds themselves in a situation that is obviously morally wrong but the followers refuse to see it and insist that the protag take part.   No obvious use of force other than the subtle compelling force of a community.   I'm reminded of the old saw about how the King got to spend the wedding night with the bride instead of her husband.  The community saw it as a fine thing, perhaps even the bride thought so too, but if you washed up on their shores, would you see it as a good thing too?
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: Sean Roach on June 05, 2010, 11:27:44 pm
We already had that story.  An individual did what he'd been told and expected to do by his community, even after pointing out the moral issues with it.
The gunner was later shot between the eyes by the victims surviving heir.
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: SandySandfort on June 06, 2010, 11:07:13 am
Perhaps my scenario was just as stereotypical as Norm the Thug, but I was thinking more of a enemy that is adored and mindlessly followed so that he/she doesn't have to use threats or intimidation at all. 

Oh, the Antichrist. It's a little ambitious for EFT, but I will take it under advisement.

To me, a far scarier scenario is where the protag finds themselves in a situation that is obviously morally wrong but the followers refuse to see it and insist that the protag take part.   

We await your short story or novel.  ::)

Seriously, I cannot please every reader. So I write for myself, because (a) I do know what I like, and (b) I assume that a good percentage of readers like the same or similar things. Incidentally, this touches on collaboration. I am not crazy about some of the ways Scott adapts my short stories. Sometimes Lee's art seems off. However, most of the time we can see the same general vision, and that is enough. (For the record, this cuts all ways. Scott gets exasperated with Lee and me and Lee, has issues with Scott and me.)

A number of people were really annoyed that I had Emily kill Young. Others even objected to my letting Emily kill Harris, without a (fair) trial.

"It is a difference of opinion that makes horse races."
     Mark Twain

No obvious use of force other than the subtle compelling force of a community.   I'm reminded of the old saw about how the King got to spend the wedding night with the bride instead of her husband.  The community saw it as a fine thing, perhaps even the bride thought so too, but if you washed up on their shores, would you see it as a good thing too?

I am sorry, but this assertion is absolute nonsense. Droit de seigneur, often call the "right of the first night," if it ever existed at all, was exercised by the local thug--baron, earl, duke--though I suppose kings could have exercised the prerogative. The "community" was made up of serfs, basically slaves, tied to the land. I defy you to come up with any credible evidence that this "community"--and especially the bride and her betrothed--condoned rape.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_seigneur
Title: Re: EFT - Robyn History Page 450 and metaphor individuals reaction to the State
Post by: BeachBumBill on June 06, 2010, 03:14:50 pm
Whoa Sandy,  smooth your feathers.

I never asserted that Droit de Signeur was fact, merely that it was "an old saw".

Keep up your great EFT strip, I am facinated by your characters.

BBB