Big Head Press Forum

Online Comics => Roswell, Texas => Topic started by: devilchef on August 04, 2006, 12:11:18 am

Title: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: devilchef on August 04, 2006, 12:11:18 am
Am I right to guess this.  Also when will The Rat Pack, Elvis and Ronald Reagan be showing up?
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Mike Mordant on August 04, 2006, 09:33:23 am
Hitler and Popeye in the same panel!  Nice touch since Popeye did fight Nazis in the old propaganda animated cartoons in the 40’s.  And Popeye would probably do well with the alternate universe Galveston as home port.

The handlebar is an improvement over our Hitler’s postage stamp.

Of course the point is that societies with high levels of freedom produce vastly different and positive results than oppressive societies.  LNS’s writing makes that clear in a very entertaining way.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: John DeWitt on August 04, 2006, 12:16:30 pm
Hmmm.  I also like the alternate Hitlery.  But...you shoot the main character, he's headed for the ground, continued in our next exciting episode...and then you give me nine pages on the domestic life of Hitler?  Guys.

You know we're waiting a week between installments here, right?
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on August 05, 2006, 12:07:43 pm
You know, not once did we use the name "Hitler" in this sequnce, yet everyone knew who it was. Am I that good an artist?

The moustache was how Hitler actually wore it when he was a soldier in WWI, according to a photograph taken shortly after the war. In actual history he shaved it down to the postage stamp in about 1920, as this was a popular style at the time. I decided that in our FST timeline he should keep the longer version, sort of as a way of symbolizing his continuing an artistic career rather than going (so disastrously) into politics.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on August 05, 2006, 03:31:11 pm
Exactly so:

http://www.dictateurs.com/images/145px-Adolf_Hitler_-_Soldier_in_1916.jpg
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Jen Zach on August 06, 2006, 12:39:14 pm
I watched the movie "Frida" while I was working on these pages, and boy did I find it weird during the dinner scene where Diego Rivera and Trotsky were talking about Hitler, lol.

A side note, Hitler wasn't actually a vegetarian in practice- he kinda thought he was, but even someone who went by the old fashioned idea of vegetarian that included fish in the diet wouldn't eat liver dumplings and squab! (And no, he didn't stop eating these and stick to vegetarianism for any extended period of time- he just went on periodic self-medicating diet changes) Two things Hitler didn't do terribly well at... being an artist, and being a vegetarian :P (Oh, and, taking over the world. He kinda failed at that, too.)

I'm glad that Rivera only says he's "moderately talanted", 'cause I've seen slides of Hitler's work in my art History class. He did a lot of landscapes, but there was always something off. One that sticks out in my mind had an elk in front of a waterfall, and the elk had a cloud of steam coming out of its mouth... it looked so unnatural, and slightly ridiculous. But it wasn't as though he was *trying* for something stylized and modern, it just looks like he failed at getting it to look natural. In any case, *not* really a style that Diego would be very impressed with- but probably enough talant to serve as an apprentice.

That's my interpretation, anyway. I had severe reservations about this little mini-arc until I saw that in the end Hitler was rendered harmless, not necessarily redeemed (someone can be an artist and still be a pretty terrible person), and in the end made a total buffoon, to the embarassment of his family. Standing on the roof yelling at the top of his lungs, like some kind of parody of his political speeches, standing high above the crowds.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: John DeWitt on August 07, 2006, 11:56:33 am
Quote
You know, not once did we use the name "Hitler" in this sequnce, yet everyone knew who it was. Am I that good an artist?

Clearly, the answer to that is obvious.  ;D

I also noticed that you never named the Bavarian artist, which I thought was a nice touch.  Just don't know how it ties in - Other than the Sam Hill reference - with Wild Bill headin' for the ground.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on August 10, 2006, 12:58:46 am
The Hitler story doesn't really "tie-in" to Win Bear having been shot. It's simply a digression to provide some historical background, explain how Sam Hill came to be, and otherwise flesh-out this alternative world we're presenting. It's also a device to bridge between the scene atop Sam Hill and the next time we see Wild Bill and the Rangers -- which will be about 100 miles away, and a half-day later.

Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Redem on September 29, 2006, 07:38:03 pm
ok as much as I found roswell,texas campy fun I kinda spot several point (in that part in specific) that bug me

*Hitler wasn't a bavarian he was born in austria.

*Hitler didn't paint people he did landscape

*Hum why did they elect her daughter? I mean sure she's a talented and all, but that doesn't mean people would be willing to get her president. I mean did the U.S elect Gutzon Borglum president? and she was elected before 1947, did any woman had any chance of getting elected president by the time in our timeline(we just started to have woman eligibable for the post)?

a question, are latino have the same right as white? wouldn't Texas have some kind of grudge agaisnt mexico and people of Mexican ancestry (and hence someone of both mexican and foreign ancestry get her chance to become president totally busted, considering conversative force)
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on September 29, 2006, 09:31:50 pm
Actually, that sidebar about Corazon is 'out of time', so to speak.   She was President after Lindbergh I.  If I remember right, she was then followed by Goldwater, and then he was followed by Lindbergh II (That's not carved in stone).

In OTL, we've never elected an artist President, but we elected an Actor — a visitor from the Texas timeline would probably be pretty astonished about Reagan, when you think about it.  As it says, Texas likes heroes, and since career politicians are comparatively rare, they tend to elect people of accomplishment.   And as the daughter of a famous artist, and a famous, innovative artist in her own right, Corazon was a natural.

Oh, she's only the third female Texan President.  The first was Phoebe Ann Mosey, Marine hero of the Venezuela war (1895-6), and the second was Margaret Tobin Brown, Governor of Lamar State, and famous for organizing rescue efforts when the _Titanic_ went down, and later shooting the owner of the shipping line.  She successfully kept Texas out of WW I.

As for Latinos, by 1947 Texas had had two Presidents of Mexican descent, Juan Nepomuceno Seguin and Benito Juarez.  It was established early on that being a Texan was a state of mind, and not of ancestry.   Also by that year, Texas had three African-descended Presidents — Toussaint Crockett Marcus Garvey and George Schuyler.  Oh, and Sam Houston Begay, a Navajo, and Judah Benjamin, of Jewish descent.

And you're right about Bavaria.  I noticed that and forgot to correct it.  And in OTL, Hitler may not have done portraits, but in Texas, he stuck with art, and of course did a much greater variety of things.  However, his syndicated comic strip about two mischievious boys, called "Sturm und Drang," never really caught on.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Redem on September 30, 2006, 08:49:02 am
actually we may elect actor as president, but we preferably have them governor of a major state before (although it make a bit more sense thank you) well it was a bit confusing because the Sam Hill look complete when they pass it.

May I ask how texas civil right institution seem to be on growt hormone? I mean in our timeline texas was a slave state. Not really good ground for a state of racial equality if you ask me.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on September 30, 2006, 10:59:57 am
Sam Hill was indeed complete before 1947.  She was elected President several years after that.  If memory serves, she'd been Senator from Santa Fé for awhile before becoming President.

President Crockett made provisions for gradual abolition of slavery circa 1842.  Philosophical underpinnings for racial equality were established by Presidents Sam Clemens and Wm Graham Sumner.  By the time of George Schuyler's presidency, it was beyond dispute.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Redem on September 30, 2006, 12:10:35 pm
Hum considering those are elected office they need to have support in the population before doing anything (and considering how radical those reform are they need heavy support)
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on September 30, 2006, 10:17:24 pm
Ah, to clear up a misconception about Corazón:  She is not the daughter of either Frida Kahlo or Guadalupe Marín.   In this timeline, Diego Rivera married much earlier, when he was quite young, in 1904, and his daughter, Maria, was born in 1906.  She married Adolf Hitler in 1924 and Corazón was born in 1925.  She built Sam Hill from 1944 to 1947 and was elected President of Texas in 1952.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on October 16, 2006, 07:05:09 pm
I had also noted the disparity wrt "Bavarian immigrant" but figured that since this is an alternate timeline, Hitler's family could have moved to Bavaria while he was young, so he would have considered himself "of" that place rather than Austria. Or, since he had been living in Bavaria the last few years before emmigrating to Texas, he would have listed "Bavaria" as his point of origin in travel documents and of course in Texas the attitude would be "Austria, Bavaria, Westphalia, what's the difference?"
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Frank B. on October 16, 2006, 08:11:25 pm
...and of course in Texas the attitude would be "Austria, Bavaria, Westphalia, what's the difference?"

Pretty much as it is with our Texas. ;-)
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Redem on October 17, 2006, 11:37:51 am
Well the thing is that Bavaria no longer existed by the time hitler was born, that austria and germany are two separated state.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on October 17, 2006, 12:18:22 pm
It didn't exist as a sovereign country, but it still existed, as it does today, as a region with a name. I'm sure that Germans who live in Bavaria call themselves Bavarians. The Confederacy doesn't exist, but people still call themselves Southerners.

Scott's point is good, but we don't have to go that far.  Hitler's life could have been exactly OTL till he immigrated.  He served in the German Army and lived in Bavaria.  Just as accurrate to call him a Bavarian as it is to call Schwartzenegger a Californian.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: wdg3rd on October 17, 2006, 02:49:21 pm
I'm sure that Germans who live in Bavaria call themselves Bavarians.
Actually, the Germans who live in Bavaria call the region Bayern.  I'm not sure what they call themselves.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on October 17, 2006, 03:56:51 pm
A male Bavarian is an aspirin — Bayer.  Female — Bayerin.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Mixed-blood on November 11, 2006, 12:46:48 pm
ok as much as I found roswell,texas campy fun I kinda spot several point (in that part in specific) that bug me

*Hitler wasn't a bavarian he was born in austria.

*Hitler didn't paint people he did landscape

*Hum why did they elect her daughter? I mean sure she's a talented and all, but that doesn't mean people would be willing to get her president. I mean did the U.S elect Gutzon Borglum president? and she was elected before 1947, did any woman had any chance of getting elected president by the time in our timeline(we just started to have woman eligibable for the post)?

a question, are latino have the same right as white? wouldn't Texas have some kind of grudge agaisnt mexico and people of Mexican ancestry (and hence someone of both mexican and foreign ancestry get her chance to become president totally busted, considering conversative force)

Others have answered the Bayer and landscape pictures - I am responding to the scurrilous allegations about Texas in general, in OTL.

Texas did NOT have a grudge against "people of Mexican ancestry" - in fact, many people of "Mexican ancestry" - including people with Spanish surnames and Christian names who spoke Spanish at home growing up and who had relatives who live/lived across the Rio Grande have always been as much Texian or Texican as anyone who moved down as part of the First Three Hundred to buy into the Austin colony.  It wasn't just a bunch of Tennessee and Louisiana filibusters that fought and died at the Alamo - a lot of those guys had Spanish names and spoke Spanish - and a lot of the people who didn't were married to women with Spanish names.  Texas DID have a grudge against Mexico - just like her citizens of Spanish and Metizo ancestry did - and Texians were anything but "conservative."  Even as late as the early 1960s, when I was a grade school student in West Texas, many of my classmates were descendents of well-established Spanish-Texan and Mexican-Texan families (see the Institute of Texas Cultures in San Antonio) who had been Texians since long before the revolution, just as my own Anglo-Indian-Texan family had been.  It was considered polite in those days to speak of anyone who was NOT of recent immigrant stock but still spoke Spanish at home and had Spanish names (although often, only surnames) as "Spanish" to distinguish them from "Mexicans" who either were immigrants themselves (wetback or legal) or were the children or grandchildren of immigrants.  I don't recall there being a particular cutoff date for when one's ancestors had come to Texas, any more than there was for German-Texans or French-Texans or Missouri-Texans: it had more to do with the Texan-ness of one's family and attitude.  But heaven help you if you called a Longoria or a Martinez a Mexican in my hometown - they were Spanish, and Texan, and we've got a good place to meet out back of the playground to settle this affair...  It may have been different in East Texas, where they had segregation and all that - but in the Panhandle and the Permian, the old Texas still lived.  In OTL, Texas got drowned out by a bunch of carpetbaggers and "old" Southron types and a lot of people that would have had their necks stretched if it hadn't been for Appomatox and Reconstruction.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Phoenix on November 19, 2006, 01:24:18 am
Well... I was going to make my first post a lovely speech about the brave people of Mexican descent who called themselves Texicans and fought on our side, but I see Mixed-blood beat me to it.

I guess I'll say that something to keep in mind is that the rules of our history do not necessarily apply in an alternate history. Is it really fair to say, "But Bavaria doesn't exist anymore," when you're talking about a story where Texas never became one of the United States?

Also wanted to say that my understanding of Hitler being a vegetarian was that it was his personal quest to find the diet that worked best for him, rather than anything like a moral problem with eating dead animals.  So it wouldn't surprise me if he often strayed from the limits most of us would consider the vegetarian diet. That would make it a bit difficult to define him as a "strict" vegetarian.

I just started reading this last night, and I'm at the beginning of Chapter Four.  Great story!

Kelly
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on November 20, 2006, 12:09:08 am
I grew up in the Dallas area, where there were fewer long-established Hispanic families (Spanish or Mexican), but I remember going to school with kids with Spanish surnames long before I went to schools with black kids. Spanish and Mexican families have long been part of the fabric of Texas culture, and most of the racism against them has come from Midwesterners and Easterners coming down in the 1950s and later.

Since moving to Wyoming I've been rather shocked by the open disdain and prejudice harbored against Mexicans by Coloradoans and Wyomingites alike (well, most of them, Neil is an exception). My father explains it has much to do with the fact that most of the Mexicans encountered here are peasant immigrants, often migrant farm laborers, and the racism is based on classism as much as anything.

Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Mixed-blood on November 23, 2006, 09:56:34 am

Since moving to Wyoming I've been rather shocked by the open disdain and prejudice harbored against Mexicans by Coloradoans and Wyomingites alike (well, most of them, Neil is an exception). My father explains it has much to do with the fact that most of the Mexicans encountered here are peasant immigrants, often migrant farm laborers, and the racism is based on classism as much as anything.



Scott, this is indeed unfortunate and true.  But the distain is not limited to either Mexicans or Spanish - when my grandparents and mother and aunt moved from eastern New Mexico to Northern Colorado in the late 1930s, they (Anglo-Texian with a very small amount of Cherokee ancestry) were treated as foreigners - my mother was once complemented on how well she spoke English, for someone from New Mexico.  And in many parts of Colorado, Texans are viewed as nothing but wetbacks or carpetbaggers (depending on how much money they have - poor are wetbacks and rich are carpetbaggers).  Wyoming sometimes has this same problem - perhaps going all the way back to the days of the Texas Trail, when trail drives were made from Texas via Kansas and all the way to the gold fields of western Montana.  Remember that Kansas, especially the "elite" of the towns like Wichita, Ellsworth, and Dodge, considered Texan trailhands to be the scum of the earth, and instituted such quaint customs as the "deadline" (you're dead if you cross the alley behind Front Street up into the part of town where the "real people" live.  Every land and people on earth has to overcome its tribalism - or at least turn its tribes into sources of strength and pride, not hatred and prejustice.  In your story, it is clear that Texas has done a better job than the OTL Texas - but freedom has a way of doing that.

Eager to learn more about other "tribes" in your story: Apache, Comanche, Ute, and even those Wyomingite goat-ropers (common derogatory term for Wyomingites in the Dakotas).
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on November 23, 2006, 12:14:52 pm
Classism?  I think it would be more accurate to say culturism, if there be such a word.  Should be, if there isn't.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on December 03, 2006, 10:40:46 pm
I have heard the term "cultural ethno-centrism" but that's a mouthful.

I think the notion of "classism" applies here because the Mexican migrant farm workers were certainly uneducated, rowdy, and had a sort of casual notion of property rights common to people who have no property and don't expect to ever have any. In Mexico, which has more stringent class distinctions than the U.S., and a great deal less class mobility, these people were at or near the bottom of the pecking order even in their homeland.

Anglos of my dad's generation who grew up in Colorado were taught by their parents to fear Mexicans, and avoid them at all costs. Many of them developed a sort of Pavolovian aversion-response to the sound of spoken Spanish. This fear and loathing has been passed through the generations, even though educated and middle-class Mexicans have since arrived. It's fairly amazing sometimes when I talk to people my age who consider themselves not to be bigots but will casually disparage Mexicans without a second thought.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on December 04, 2006, 11:21:33 am
Scott, this is actually a very interesting question.  Class or ethnos?  You can make arguments for both.  Or you could just say xenophobia.  In any case, when you say "...certainly uneducated, rowdy, and had a sort of casual notion of property rights common to people who have no property and don't expect to ever have any....", you're setting yourself up to be called a lot of very hysterical names:)

Anyhow, xenophobia is a universal human — and probably mammalian — characteristic.  It's not Pavlov as much as Darwin.  And like all inherited characteristics, it was selected for in the past, and may or may not be advantageous in the present and future.  Which it is in any given instance is an open question, and no generalized answer is possible.  The important thing is to recognize that it's always there. Darwin rules.

Roswell, of course, is a valiant attempt to make a plausible scenario where xenophobia is tempered by reason, at least in one country.  It's important that immigrants to Texas are self-selected and pre-screened by their knowledge of Texas' reputation.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Scott on December 06, 2006, 04:27:30 pm
Heh. Well, Neil reminds me that people exist as individuals, not as groups, and any generalization about a group is going to get you into trouble one way or another. No doubt, the trouble-makers among the migrants were a minority within the minority. But there were enough of them that the Anglos could complain about an increase in larceny whenever the migrants were around.

I get in trouble all the time for pointing out discomfiting things. Nothing new to me.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on December 06, 2006, 04:50:53 pm
"It is hardly to be hoped that one can speak with knowledge and insight without being accused of ignorance and bigotry."

From a nice little website here:

http://curmudgeonjoy.blogspot.com/

Actually, people exist both ways.  Categorization is essential to philosophy and linguistics, probably to the human mind itself.  The important thing is that you realize what a "category" is, and what can be validly said about it, and just what a generalization is.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Frank B. on December 06, 2006, 09:32:27 pm
The important thing is that you realize what a "category" is, and what can be validly said about it, and just what a generalization is.

Like knowing the difference between a model of a thing, and the thing itself. 

Is it clobberin' time?

-- Frank
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on December 09, 2006, 08:42:30 am
Ye-e-es.  Here's how I'd put it.  Nouns (and noun phrases) (except for a subset of proper names that refer to a certain individual) all indicate categories — birch trees, fingers, presbyterians, hoosiers, fish, rocks — and many things belong to these categories, and you can make generalizations about them (rocks are hard) although some rocks are soft, and most of us recognize that most things said about a category can be correct only to a degree, UNLESS the thing you say is a part of the DEFINITION of the category.  Obviously, any generalization you make about an ethnic group, except for a defining generalization, will inevitably contain exceptions.

Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: archy on May 01, 2007, 10:27:05 am
And you're right about Bavaria.  I noticed that and forgot to correct it.  And in OTL, Hitler may not have done portraits, but in Texas, he stuck with art, and of course did a much greater variety of things.  However, his syndicated comic strip about two mischievious boys, called "Sturm und Drang," never really caught on.

Though less well-known than those of primary cover illustrator  Frank R. Paul, Hitler's watercolour cover illustrations for Amazing (http://Amazing) and other science fiction magazines of the 1920s and 30s are not only collector's items in their own right, but several of his depictions of multi-tentacled alien beings prooved eerily accurate. Credited only to illustrator *Doilf*, his *final period* alien landscape and buildings output has been compared to that of Boris Artzybasheff and Louis Wain, but at least Hitler had a market for it where his visions fit in.


Boris Artzybasheff techno/anthropomorphism:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&safe=off&q=Boris+Artzybasheff&btnG=Search+Images

Louis Wain cat portraitures:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&safe=off&q=Louis+Wain

Dolf Hitler watercolours:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&safe=off&q=hitler+watercolors+
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: archy on May 01, 2007, 11:03:04 am
Obviously, any generalization you make about an ethnic group, except for a defining generalization, will inevitably contain exceptions.

All generalizations are untrue!

--aphorism attributed to Samuel Langhorne Clemens, former President of the Federated States of Texas.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Leviathan on May 22, 2007, 09:47:17 am
actually we may elect actor as president, but we preferably have them governor of a major state before (although it make a bit more sense thank you) well it was a bit confusing because the Sam Hill look complete when they pass it.

May I ask how texas civil right institution seem to be on growt hormone? I mean in our timeline texas was a slave state. Not really good ground for a state of racial equality if you ask me.

Sorry to pull up six month old posts, but I just joined the forums not long ago and just got around to reading this one.

Something to note about civil rights for the former slaves?  Freed (as in, didn't run away or get emancipated en masse) slaves were not generally considered second-class citizens in the South.  It may not have been completely socially acceptable for a white to marry a colored, but quite a few blacks were slave-owners in the south before the civil war.  They had wealth and status in many cases.  Many southerners did consider blacks as subhuman but a freed man was a citizen in his or her own right. 

Then in comes the North.  The North says all slaves are free now.  Now all those former slaves become a symbol of defeat and imperialism and imposed government.  Of confiscation and of the north taking the wealth of the south.  Suddenly all black men and women are as good as slaves in peoples' minds.  Added to this condition was the fact that almost every slave had been a fairly large investment.  People felt they had huge amounts of wealth confiscated from them.  It becomes easy, as a result, to blame your own personal poverty on the confiscation of slave wealth whether your family had ever been a plantation owner or not.

Without that, the KKK wouldn't have had as much of a general foothold, and the wealthier blacks and their descendants would've likely ended up gaining more and more influence and office.  The really big movements in the south against blacks didn't start until after the civil war.

One fairly major irony of the civil war is the fact that abolition in the context of the civil war almost caused revolution in the north.  The northerners didn't really like the idea that they were fighting and dying just to free the southern blacks.  To preserve the union.  Lincoln's party had managed to convince the north that the south was traitorous and what's more the aggressors in the conflict, even.  When it became about slavery, they wanted his head on a pike for getting their sons/husbands killed for the cause.

The biggest irony in the imposed end to slavery is that the institution was doomed.  Machinery was being developed that would've made plantation slavery completely ruinous in both yeild and cost.  Support of slavery, even in the south, was by no means universal.  By the turn of the century slaves would've been the folly and luxury of people who could afford a slave just for menial house labor, at worst.  At best, the few remaining slaves would've long since been manumitted and rehired as paid labor.  It was cheaper.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: jrl on June 24, 2007, 11:21:53 pm
An excellent analysis of the "War of Northern Aggression," Leviathan.

I've been pointing out lately that the Civil Rights Movement was not "Democracy in Action."

The Jim Crow laws were democracy in action: An angry, disenfranchised majority regained ther franchise at the end of Reconstruction and took it out on those they felt had harmed them (at least since the carpet baggers were mostly out of reach.)

The Civil Rights Movement was about shaming the majority into acknowledging the rights the minority should have had all along.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Rocketman on June 25, 2007, 10:21:16 am
I don't remember ever seeing any of Hitler's artwork before.  He really did have some serious artistic talent.   You kind of have to speculate what might have happened if the WW1 armistance terms of the allies had not been so strict which rightly angered the german people allowing the Nazi party to slip in.  Hitler today might have been know as a relatively successful painter just as Fidel Castro might have been a relatively successful baseball player.  Makes you wonder.   ;D
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on June 25, 2007, 04:40:21 pm
Treatment of that idea here:
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Dream-Norman-Spinrad/dp/1902002164
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: klausmeyer on July 20, 2007, 08:58:58 am
Oh, she's only the third female Texan President.  The first was Phoebe Ann Mosey, Marine hero of the Venezuela war (1895-6)...

Is there more information about this war in the graphic novel? Where can I find it? Thank you.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on July 20, 2007, 02:31:15 pm
Not in the novel, but in my backstory notes I have:

"1895 British Guiana-Venezuela border dispute grows hot.  British Navy shells Caracas and
British Marines land and capture the capital.  Sumner confers with his cabinet and Congress,
then presents British ambassador with the ultimatum that British forces withdraw from
Venezuela or face a declaration of war from Texas. Britain refuses.  Sumner asks for, and
receives, a declaration of war from Congress.  Sumner resigns, as Texan law requires, and
joins Texan Army as a private. Begay is sworn in as President. Texan Navy attacks Georgetown and Jamaican/Texan forces storm and capture the British Naval base there, led by General Phoebe Ann Mosey of the Texas Marine Corps.

"1896  The war continues, with British counterattacks against Texas in Central America and Cuba.  President Begay is assassinated by a British agent.  Secretary of State James Jones Quarles is sworn in as President.
California enters war on Texan side, attacks and seizes Hawaii, which is at the time a British Pretectorate.

"Emperess Isabella of Brazil offers to mediate an end to the Anglo-Texan war.  Treaty of Rio restores
British Naval base in Jamaica, but Britain must cede most of Guyana to Venezuela.  Venezuela petitions
for statehood in Texas."

And that, I believe, is the last time Texas declared war on anybody.

Mosey is elected President in 1904 and 1907.  You can buy a picture of her here:
http://www.laughingravy21.com/StoreFrontProfiles/DeluxeSFItemDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=80103&c=104201&i=195512336
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: klausmeyer on July 27, 2007, 02:37:51 pm
Not in the novel, but in my backstory notes I have:

Thank you very much!

Greetings.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: jayphailey on August 05, 2007, 08:25:39 am

Since moving to Wyoming I've been rather shocked by the open disdain and prejudice harbored against Mexicans by Coloradoans and Wyomingites alike (well, most of them, Neil is an exception). My father explains it has much to do with the fact that most of the Mexicans encountered here are peasant immigrants, often migrant farm laborers, and the racism is based on classism as much as anything.

I grew up in Southern California.  I Moved to Spokane in 1990.

A lot of Anti-mexican feeling up here seems rooted in abject ignorance.

Like everyone else, Latino folks are not all one thing,  you have your stand up folks and your weasels -  it's not like character is color coded.

It seems like a lot of people think of Spanish ebing Spojken and get resentful and vaguely fearful.  I don't get that at all.

Jay ~Meow!~
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: Zen Redneck on August 05, 2007, 06:43:14 pm
It's an ethnicity thing.  Ethnic groups differ from each other, and most all of us belong to one ethnic group or another.  There are big cultural differences between some ethnic groups, and people are at least vaguely aware of them.  Latino or Mexican culture includes things that are unpalatable to American culture. Simple as that.  Tolerance is only possible within limits. There has to be an overarching agreement on minimal standards of behavior for there to be peace among differing ethnic groups.  We're not there yet.  Obviously.
Title: Re: Hitler's Daughter
Post by: archy on August 23, 2007, 12:11:51 pm
Well... I was going to make my first post a lovely speech about the brave people of Mexican descent who called themselves Texicans and fought on our side, but I see Mixed-blood beat me to it.

And who sometimes wore playing cards in their hatbands so's the Anglo Texians wouldn't mistake them for those of the other side. I was introduced to that little tidbit of history when working with a quiet little Minuteman volunteer named Pepe, who 'splained it to me when I asked howcome the Jack of Diamonds in his Stetson's band.

You have to wonder how the feller who was wearing the Ace of Spades felt about it, tho.