Big Head Press Forum

Online Comics => Escape From Terra => Topic started by: cyberbard on February 10, 2009, 09:45:04 am

Title: Extended stay...
Post by: cyberbard on February 10, 2009, 09:45:04 am
Hmmm, the Boss Man is about to sent Guy back to Ceres as a form of punishment.  Not smart.  Not smart at all.  If I were in that man's position, I would sent in a large team of my most hard-nosed agents, coupled by calling in some favors in other branches of government.  I would escalate my pressure on Ceres, not re-use a "fool" that failed to do the job.  Granted, he's going to be doing more than just send Guy back in for another round, but personally I would never let Guy out of the office again.  In fact I'd be tempted to fire him.

Again, that's what I would do... were I a meglo-maniacal, powerful government agent like him.  But since I'm not, it's a moot point.

By telling Guy to prepare for an extended stay, that gives Guy 2-3 days to put his affairs in order on Terra.  You know, things like sending private letters to his family and friends informing them that he doesn't expect to ever come back.   The Boss Man is essentially giving Guy a "get out of jail" card, should Guy choose to use it as such.

Guy may honestly attempt to finish the job he was supposed to do, and will go in with all the gusto he can muster.  But it won't last, IMO.  He's probably re-evaluating things left and right, and I predict he'll eventually defect to Ceres.

It's also possible that Guy's department head could eventually join the Ceres exodus, too.  She's probably a bit rattled at the Boss Man's words right now, and may be looking for an escape route.  Perhaps she'll go to Ceres as well, ostensibly to keep an eye on foolish little agent Caillard.

Just some speculations on this Tuesday morning.  :)
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 10, 2009, 10:06:07 am
Hmmm, the Boss Man is about to sent Guy back to Ceres as a form of punishment.  Not smart.  Not smart at all.  If I were in that man's position, I would sent in a large team of my most hard-nosed agents, coupled by calling in some favors in other branches of government.  I would escalate my pressure on Ceres, not re-use a "fool" that failed to do the job.  Granted, he's going to be doing more than just send Guy back in for another round, but personally I would never let Guy out of the office again.  In fact I'd be tempted to fire him.

Again, that's what I would do... were I a meglo-maniacal, powerful government agent like him.  But since I'm not, it's a moot point.

By telling Guy to prepare for an extended stay, that gives Guy 2-3 days to put his affairs in order on Terra.  You know, things like sending private letters to his family and friends informing them that he doesn't expect to ever come back.   The Boss Man is essentially giving Guy a "get out of jail" card, should Guy choose to use it as such.

Guy may honestly attempt to finish the job he was supposed to do, and will go in with all the gusto he can muster.  But it won't last, IMO.  He's probably re-evaluating things left and right, and I predict he'll eventually defect to Ceres.

It's also possible that Guy's department head could eventually join the Ceres exodus, too.  She's probably a bit rattled at the Boss Man's words right now, and may be looking for an escape route.  Perhaps she'll go to Ceres as well, ostensibly to keep an eye on foolish little agent Caillard.

Just some speculations on this Tuesday morning.  :)

Nice speculation on a Tuesday morning, but you don't seem to have taking into account that Guy will be returning with the signed "Treaty of Mutual Indifference"...
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: cyberbard on February 10, 2009, 10:19:12 am
Nice speculation on a Tuesday morning, but you don't seem to have taking into account that Guy will be returning with the signed "Treaty of Mutual Indifference"...

Yes, I had overlooked that.  My bad.  Two possible theories...  (come on, you knew I would have some...)

1.) The UWRS is signing the treaty as a time purchase.  They plan to try another tactic on Ceres, but need time to put it together.  In the mean time, they send Guy to Ceres to keep an eye on things, and perhaps give him a list of possible loopholes to search for in the Ceres financial system.  Guy will "redeem" himself by playing the bloodhound.  They need to find that C100 billion somewhere, and I can't see them giving up on Cerest just yet.

2.) The UWRS is sending Guy to Ceres on a one-way ticket.  In short, Guy's employment will be terminated the moment he hands over that treaty.  The UWRS will then start looking for their C100b elsewhere.  They may come calling on Ceres again later, but not until they've looked at other, less "head strong" enclaves.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 10, 2009, 12:08:41 pm
Nice speculation on a Tuesday morning, but you don't seem to have taking into account that Guy will be returning with the signed "Treaty of Mutual Indifference"...

Yes, I had overlooked that.  My bad.  Two possible theories...  (come on, you knew I would have some...)

1.) The UWRS is signing the treaty as a time purchase.  They plan to try another tactic on Ceres, but need time to put it together.  In the mean time, they send Guy to Ceres to keep an eye on things, and perhaps give him a list of possible loopholes to search for in the Ceres financial system.  Guy will "redeem" himself by playing the bloodhound.  They need to find that C100 billion somewhere, and I can't see them giving up on Cerest just yet.

2.) The UWRS is sending Guy to Ceres on a one-way ticket.  In short, Guy's employment will be terminated the moment he hands over that treaty.  The UWRS will then start looking for their C100b elsewhere.  They may come calling on Ceres again later, but not until they've looked at other, less "head strong" enclaves.

Very good. Now let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 10, 2009, 08:01:57 pm
I think that cyberbard is right that the head supervisor is using the treaty of mutual indifference to buy time.  This "Arthur Harris" unless I miss my guess is some kind of troubleshooter for the UW and is called in when someone messes with the UW and needs dealing with.  Probably what would be considered a hired killer under very "permanent" contract for the UW.  Guy is in serious trouble, either that or King Reggie is.   :-X
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: cyberbard on February 11, 2009, 10:35:46 am
This "Arthur Harris" unless I miss my guess is some kind of troubleshooter for the UW and is called in when someone messes with the UW and needs dealing with.  Probably what would be considered a hired killer under very "permanent" contract for the UW.  Guy is in serious trouble, either that or King Reggie is.   :-X

Harris is a "cleaner?"  A specialty "problem solver?"  OH, that could be dangerous.

If someone is in trouble, I'm guessing it's Reggie.  Guy isn't worth that kind of trouble, at least not at the moment; there's no point shooting the messenger, et cetera.  If Harris is an assassin of some sort, though, then Ceres is in real trouble.  Ceres is expecting retribution from Terra, but they seem to be expecting a frontal confrontation.  Not a single operative running around taking out specific individuals from deep cover.  Sometimes a single, skilled commando is more effective than an entire division of soldiers.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 11, 2009, 02:15:48 pm
One thing you're forgetting about such things as treaties like that.  Sometimes it's worse to have a legal status, however ridiculous, than to be in limbo.  When they were in limbo, there was no official government to declare war against.  No rules of engagement.  A treaty of mutual indifference requires the two sides to be relatively at peace.  If they can claim that the belters have caused some flimsy bit of economic harm, imagined or otherwise, to Terra it can serve as a basis for demanding damages or act as the foundation for a declaration of war.  As Monarch by the document, Reggie is effectively liable and non-payment of the damages would be grounds for a war even if the supposed harm doesn't merit.  Just because Reggie's kingdom evaporates in a puff at the least scrutiny doesn't mean it's not legal and binding because of that treaty.  And the UW is unlikely to listen to the fallback that he had no authority to participate in treaty-making, if it gives them grounds to raid the belt for anything they can grab.

In short, so long as it was just individual transactions there was no grounds for a declaration of war or any other such government stupidity.  The treaty establishes a legal foundation for almost any act the UW can conceive of, and I'm beginning to have a facepalm moment at how badly such a maneuver can backfire.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 12, 2009, 08:58:25 am

It looks as though you guys are getting into the groove. Again, let's see what happens. You might be surprised... or not.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: cyberbard on February 12, 2009, 12:21:08 pm
In short, so long as it was just individual transactions there was no grounds for a declaration of war or any other such government stupidity.  The treaty establishes a legal foundation for almost any act the UW can conceive of, and I'm beginning to have a facepalm moment at how badly such a maneuver can backfire.

In other words, without realizing it, Reggie has seriously fu*ked up!

 :(

But... pretty soon Guy will be there to help Reggie navigate this upcoming storm.  Should Reggie ask, and should Guy accept.  Quite a bit of irony there, says I.

Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 12, 2009, 01:48:52 pm


Harris is a "cleaner?"  A specialty "problem solver?"  OH, that could be dangerous.

If someone is in trouble, I'm guessing it's Reggie.  Guy isn't worth that kind of trouble, at least not at the moment; there's no point shooting the messenger, et cetera. 

Cyberbard:  Your missing the second half of why to send Guy back to the "colonies".  When someone gets murdered it always helps the real murderer to have an innocent person to serve as a patsy.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 13, 2009, 02:55:28 am
Oh, I don't blame reggie for trying to find a way to get it in writing from the UW that they'd leave the belt alone.  It's a nice thought.  But the UWRS, if it's anything like the modern gov, knows about as much about keeping contracts with anyone who can't have them shipped for sausage manufacture as Geedubya knows about sobriety.  "You...  You mean you can be not fucked up?"  ;D

Besides, it may not end up as a total miscalculation on Reggie's part.  I just can't see the UWRS signing the gaffy parchment if it wasn't something that furthered their ends.  And that's kinda what I figure it does when it sets up the legal foundation for treating with the Belt as if they are governed.

And the UW is unlikely to prosecute Mister Harris if he's a real hitman.  But I also doubt he is.  Assuming they've bought the King Reginald act, killing him doesn't get them their tax money.  Intimidating him, theoretically might.  However, there is a work out there that might apply here.  Ever heard of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"?

The irony is the UWRS wants Continentals.  The Belters really and truly mostly don't have them.  They'd have to snag the commodities being traded, sell for Continentals, and then use those.  Which, given the sheer number of them they want, would crash those commodities on Terra and result in widespread deflation (massive demand for Continentals, massive supply of gold, carbon, etc. means price of continentals goes up, price of those commodities goes down).  Which means they'd be stepping on those toes anyway, plus crashing the economy anyway, rendering their plunder moot because it'd be the last they're gonna get for awhile and no new economy would be generated because of their stupid policies. 

Their best move is actually to print the bills they need, inflate the Continental a bit, and prolong the inevitable for awhile.  Nobody in their right mind would loan it to them, since they'd basically end up getting it stolen from them to get the return.  "Lemme borrow $10 from you, I'll pay you back $15 in a week." Five days later, "I've got a gun, pay me twenty or I kill you." Two days later, "Here's the fifteen I owe you."  Aint nobody left to redistribute it to them from in the EfT timeline.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 13, 2009, 11:29:16 am
And the UW is unlikely to prosecute Mister Harris if he's a real hitman.

Hmm, I wonder why that name rings a bell...
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 13, 2009, 02:39:04 pm
The thought has occurred to me that since there is no such thing in reality as a "monarchy" on Ceres that although the UW has signed it, it is really a worthless piece of paper.  Okay then, even more worthless than the UW realizes that it is, since the UW has no intention of keeping their word on the document and since "King" Reggie legally didn't have the right to sign any treaty that effected anyone else on Ceres other than himself.  When the UW figure out that the document is worthless it will probably mean that it would have been better for both sides if it had never been signed at all.   :(
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 14, 2009, 04:10:47 am
I ended up finding two possible sources for the name.  One was a sheriff in Essex, England.  A pirate-hunter pretty much.  The other was "Butcher" Harris.  A bloodthirsty bastard in WWII who actually diverted resources from military targets in order to slaughter German civilians.  I read one spot that when Dresden I think it was turned into a cyclone from the flames of the firebombing, he started trying to re-create that in other cities.  He was not interested, at all, in sticking to targets that were going to be hitting his troops or country.  He wanted to kill as many as possible.  He has a statue devoted to him now.  I hope it's vandalized regularly.

On a lighter note, assuming Reggie lets his guard down now that he thinks he has a piece of paper declaring the Belt out of bounds to UWRS, Guy is about to have his world turned upside-down methinks.  He's trying to bow to Reggie.  Bowing and scraping like some sycophant...  To a preacher of a deliciously irreverant by modern standards church, informal arbitrator, general businessman, and star of off-off-off-off broadway stage ;D
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 14, 2009, 10:29:58 am
...assuming Reggie lets his guard down now that he thinks he has a piece of paper declaring the Belt out of bounds to UWRS...

Bite your tongue! Reggie is smarter than both of us put together. The Treaty cost nothing and might help. Of course, we are playing the odds here. Just because something is a good bet, or even the best bet, doesn't mean it is guaranteed to win.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 14, 2009, 08:02:30 pm
I ended up finding two possible sources for the name.  One was a sheriff in Essex, England.  A pirate-hunter pretty much.  The other was "Butcher" Harris.  A bloodthirsty bastard in WWII who actually diverted resources from military targets in order to slaughter German civilians.  I read one spot that when Dresden I think it was turned into a cyclone from the flames of the firebombing, he started trying to re-create that in other cities.  He was not interested, at all, in sticking to targets that were going to be hitting his troops or country.  He wanted to kill as many as possible.  He has a statue devoted to him now.  I hope it's vandalized regularly.
  I've heard of "bomber" Harris who was in command of the RAF's bombers during WW2.  Are we talking about the same person?  I admit that I know little about him.  ???
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 15, 2009, 06:58:04 am
Sandy, like I say, there's about a zero chance of that keeping the UWRS at bay.  For starters, there wouldn't be much comic left to show if the UWRS gave up that easy  ;)  Second, like I say it grants effectively a sovereign status which can act as a justification and foundation for war declaration.

Plus, I'm sure the parchment wasn't free  :D  TANSTAAFL  :P

Rocketman, look him up.  The guy was so happy with the firestorm he created the first time he kept trying to do it over and over again.  Thermal cyclones causing damage on the order of nuclear attack.  Intentionally and specifically targetting civilians.  No charges.  Despite the fact that he oversaw the murder of tens of thousands of people who weren't shooting.  Who weren't doing more than working in factories and shops.  Think many times the size of 9/11 in terms of loss of human life.  He was the British Osama bin Laden on that "offensive".  And the queen acted surprised that there would be anyone who wouldn't be happy at a statue dedicated to him.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 15, 2009, 10:17:22 am
Sandy, like I say, there's about a zero chance of that keeping the UWRS at bay.  For starters, there wouldn't be much comic left to show if the UWRS gave up that easy  ;)

Well, in the current arc, you are mostly correct. However, EFT is not a "war comic." There will be mystery, humor, intrigue, adventure, wonder and romance in future arcs. We aim to create a full-service universe.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: wdg3rd on February 16, 2009, 05:45:16 pm
The other was "Butcher" Harris.  A bloodthirsty bastard in WWII who actually diverted resources from military targets in order to slaughter German civilians.  I read one spot that when Dresden I think it was turned into a cyclone from the flames of the firebombing, he started trying to re-create that in other cities.  He was not interested, at all, in sticking to targets that were going to be hitting his troops or country.  He wanted to kill as many as possible.  He has a statue devoted to him now.  I hope it's vandalized regularly.

Actually, the first and unplanned firestorm was Hamburg.  Dresden was the "Let's see if we can do it again, on purpose" target.

Arthur Travers "Bomber" Harris was the thug in charge.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 17, 2009, 03:09:49 am
Sandy, ooh.  This is gonna become sorta a frontierslife kind of story then, once the UWRS is fended off for awhile?

wdg3rd, *bows to your superior grasp of history* I only just heard about this fucker from looking the name up.  And only distantly recall the bombing of places like Dresden.  And don't recall it having been mentioned except maybe once or twice before, and I doubt during my years of schooling, that they intentionally firebombed much to start widespread blazes.  These "soldiers" should've been shot, drawn, and quartered by the families of the civvies they killed.  Instead they're history's heros.

And with events like that being the inevitable consequence of government, people still wonder why I can't be a minarchist anymore.  I can't.  Having to deal with a Somalia, if the worst of the naysayers are correct, for the rest of time would pale beside the prospect of knowing wholesale slaughter will, not even might, come again from government.  Is coming now, though at least the leadership admitted trying to slaughter the innocents en mass is overall ineffective as a strategy.  Not that it's too immoral for them, just ineffective...  Someone someday will forget that and ponder it all over again unless this juggernaut is blasted to the hell it's too horrible to have come from...
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 17, 2009, 09:17:18 am
Sandy, ooh.  This is gonna become sorta a frontierslife kind of story then, once the UWRS is fended off for awhile?

The universe is full of wonder... and conflict. But if you get bored, you just let us know.  ;)

And with events like that [Dresden et al.] being the inevitable consequence of government, people still wonder why I can't be a minarchist anymore. 

I'm with you there, my friend.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: wdg3rd on February 17, 2009, 10:39:46 pm

wdg3rd, *bows to your superior grasp of history* I only just heard about this fucker from looking the name up.  And only distantly recall the bombing of places like Dresden.  And don't recall it having been mentioned except maybe once or twice before, and I doubt during my years of schooling, that they intentionally firebombed much to start widespread blazes.  These "soldiers" should've been shot, drawn, and quartered by the families of the civvies they killed.  Instead they're history's heros.

No problem here about the amendment on quartering troops.  Happy to do so, as long as I can hang and draw them first.

Lev, I first learned about it in my early teens, when I read a novel "Slaughterhouse Five" by a writer who was to his death a liberal.  Happens Kurt Vonnegut was a POW in Dresden at the time.  (Never found any of his work worth rereading aside from his short fiction, most of which is in the anthology Welcome to the Monkey House which probably isn't in print.  (IS Dell still around?)

Quote
And with events like that being the inevitable consequence of government, people still wonder why I can't be a minarchist anymore.  I can't.  Having to deal with a Somalia, if the worst of the naysayers are correct, for the rest of time would pale beside the prospect of knowing wholesale slaughter will, not even might, come again from government.  Is coming now, though at least the leadership admitted trying to slaughter the innocents en mass is overall ineffective as a strategy.  Not that it's too immoral for them, just ineffective...  Someone someday will forget that and ponder it all over again unless this juggernaut is blasted to the hell it's too horrible to have come from...

I haven't pretended to be a minarchist since October 1991.  (I'll tell you why I kept up the pretense after 1978 over a beer some tine, either here in Jersey or after I escape to New Hampshire -- not sure of the break point in the current economy that La Esposa will be willing to make the move, she's a bit stubborn and she was whelped less than a mile from here).

Government delenda est.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 18, 2009, 01:05:42 am
Sandy,
Heh, with the forum here everyone gets to nitpick  ;)  But so far I'm not bored.  I guess it didn't sink in that the UWRS conflict can't be an eternal part of the storyline if it wasn't a set story arc.  It'd be like batman fighting twoface every episode for fifty years if UWRS were the only source of conflicts for the story  :D

Actually, that reminds me...  Shouldn't batman be in adult diapers by now?  Instead of the batmobile, he should have the batwalker.

wdg3rd,
I will clarify.  There are (probably) soldiers and even a few police out there I wouldn't mind hiring for private security.  These few individuals got in believing they were defeinding the freedom of their home and family, and often come back with emotional scars because of what this belief led them into doing and having done to them.  The butchers, however, that are the standard fare in governance are what they'd be defending that home against.  Finally.

There's also the college money and other benefits-seeker.  I don't hold as much of a distaste for this sort as the butchers.  Parasitical, but people do that in a governed nation.  Depending on how stable they were afterwards, would be whether I'd consider them reliable security.  After all, they have that private company mercenary spirit at least.

The rest, the sociopaths who get into the military so they can kill people without consequences, can go in a meat grinder for all I care.

I never read anything by Kurt Vonnegut, at all.  So I wouldn't know his readable from his unreadable.  If the bastards firebombed their own POWs, well...  I shouldn't wonder that they weren't charged with treason for attacking "their own" troops.  But even so.  It should be over the normal, if psychotic, line when it comes to that.

New Hampshire, by the way, is probably not a safe zone.  Remember, you're still dealing with the Federal interference even if you somehow got rid of what even NH is doing.  I'll just give something of an example of NH's issue.  I don't know if you've read this lever action essay, but LNS put forward the libertarian/conservative test.  It's simply the Lincoln Test.  The rule is simple.  Ask someone what their opinion of Lincoln is.  If they love him, they're either a conservative or a libertarian who hasn't been exposed to all the information yet.  I met a NH conservative who called himself a tenth amendment conservative.  Yet one of the reasons he loved Lincoln was because Lincoln Preserved the Union.  Despite the fact that the tenth is one of the things that should've been part of the Federal Government's requirement to allow secession.  Just because the FSP chose it doesn't mean you're going to be free of statist imperialist ideology.  Or Federal interference.  Or even state and local interference.  The nation has to go crazy before it can go sane again.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 18, 2009, 01:13:17 am
Sandy,
Heh, with the forum here everyone gets to nitpick  ;)  But so far I'm not bored.  I guess it didn't sink in that the UWRS conflict can't be an eternal part of the storyline if it wasn't a set story arc.

Of course, those UW goons might hang on for some time. No telling what mischief they might cause...
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 18, 2009, 01:18:57 am
No foolies, no foolies.

Oh, and I can almost see and hear the BSoD in Guy's head at this point.  "This brain has performed an illegal operation and will now be shut down.  Should the problem persist, please contact the educational administrator responsible for it."
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: wdg3rd on February 18, 2009, 05:43:55 pm

New Hampshire, by the way, is probably not a safe zone.  Remember, you're still dealing with the Federal interference even if you somehow got rid of what even NH is doing.  I'll just give something of an example of NH's issue.  I don't know if you've read this lever action essay, but LNS put forward the libertarian/conservative test.  It's simply the Lincoln Test.  The rule is simple.  Ask someone what their opinion of Lincoln is.  If they love him, they're either a conservative or a libertarian who hasn't been exposed to all the information yet.  I met a NH conservative who called himself a tenth amendment conservative.  Yet one of the reasons he loved Lincoln was because Lincoln Preserved the Union.  Despite the fact that the tenth is one of the things that should've been part of the Federal Government's requirement to allow secession.  Just because the FSP chose it doesn't mean you're going to be free of statist imperialist ideology.  Or Federal interference.  Or even state and local interference.  The nation has to go crazy before it can go sane again.


If nothing else, New Hampshire in its current form is a vast improvement over New Jersey.  I saw a poster in our town hall here bragging about how New Jersey was the first state to ratify the Bill of Rights.  If you look at the chart in the back of Boston's Gun Bible, 2nd Ed. (http://www.javelinpress.com/bostons_gun_bible.html), you can see that New Jersey is #50 on the list when it comes to the Second Amendment.  The book isn't at hand, so I forget New Hampshire's place in the list, but it's in the single digits.  Yes, I'm familiar with Neil's essay.  Read it when it was first online and later in bound form.  I've known Neil for quite a while and he has eaten my chili.  There is wide variety among the people in New Hampshire.  Some of them are wet-their-pants liberals (and a few of those happen to be related to me, but I refuse to let the flaws in my personal gene pool affect my decision) to some of the most hard-core anarchists I've ever met -- and I'm not talking about immigrant members of the Free State Project, I'm talking about people I went to high school with.

In New Hampshire, open carry is legal anywhere except in a courtroom.  Of course, there are places it is dangerous to carry, and these tend to be areas the Feral government has claimed as its own, such as Manchester Airport.  A concealed carry permit costs ten bucks and takes a week.  Like Neil, I'm pretty much a single-issue voter, and it's the same issue.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 18, 2009, 08:13:54 pm



In New Hampshire, open carry is legal anywhere except in a courtroom.  Of course, there are places it is dangerous to carry, and these tend to be areas the Feral government has claimed as its own, such as Manchester Airport.  A concealed carry permit costs ten bucks and takes a week.  Like Neil, I'm pretty much a single-issue voter, and it's the same issue.

     Indiana is not too bad either.  Get fingerprinted.  Send in a twenty nine dollar money order if I remember correctly and you get you concealed permit in about six weeks.  Good for four years.  Since I already had a (former) secret security clearance from the government and went through two combat pistol courses from a nearby defense academy, I knew I wasn't going to have any trouble.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Sean Roach on February 18, 2009, 11:31:57 pm
My brother, the army officer, is more moral than I am.

You might want to reconsider your view of the common military man.  Most career soldiers aren't psychopaths.  Many, my brother included, volunteered to serve.  I'd even argue most, but I don't know what the ratio is between them and those joining to escape their present circumstances.

I won't argue the politics.  I'm ambivalent on several points, but my brother joined to give back.  I believe firmly he's of the majority.

As for Lincoln...
I don't know...we could be speaking spanish or french, (or 'proper' oxford english,) if he'd not done so, but the people who succeeded him in death were, in my humble opinion, thieves who raped the south for personal gain, and precipitated the continued radical racism into the middle of the last century.  I believe that if it weren't for the ones who followed Lincoln, there would not BE a distinct black culture now, just as there isn't a distinct irish, german, or italian culture in mainstream america today.  THOSE cultures were allowed to assimilate and leave harlem.

...Though, I AM amused that one Lee fought FOR washington to put down a rebellion, and then his descendant fought AGAINST Washington DC in support of one...
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Frank B. on February 19, 2009, 02:27:59 pm
My brother, the army officer, is more moral than I am.

You might want to reconsider your view of the common military man.  Most career soldiers aren't psychopaths.  Many, my brother included, volunteered to serve.  I'd even argue most, but I don't know what the ratio is between them and those joining to escape their present circumstances.

Not sure who you're asking to reconsider their view.  I've known a number of ex-military guys, and I found them to be as "moral" as the next guy.  I have a nephew who joined the marines a few years ago as a 17 year old, and has seen 2 tours of Iraq.  That kid was likely heading to prison prior to joining.  Now, he's an upright kind of guy.  All in all, the experience has been a positive one for him.  On the flip side, I know a guy who served in the army, and when he got out, joined the Bandidos (a very large motorcycle gang in Texas notorious for all manner of bad behavior) and had a rough time of it.   He straightened his life out around the time he started studying Aikido.

Bottom line, everyone walks their own path even when it looks like the same one. 
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 19, 2009, 04:47:45 pm
As for Lincoln...
I don't know...we could be speaking spanish or french, (or 'proper' oxford english,) if he'd not done so, but the people who succeeded him in death were, in my humble opinion, thieves who raped the south for personal gain...

Lincoln set the standard. He raped the Constitution and made war on the South. The deaths of thousands of innocent humans are on his hands. Bullet in the brain? He got off easy.

As for soldiers wanting to "give something back," I don't think anyone, or at least very few, has fought or died for his country since the American revolution. Many have fought and died for the special interests which the government serves, but their efforts have only damaged freedom, their countrymen and themselves. (Yeah, I know, it's a minority opinion, but like everyone else, I AM a minority.)
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: wdg3rd on February 22, 2009, 08:05:34 am

As for soldiers wanting to "give something back," I don't think anyone, or at least very few, has fought or died for his country since the American revolution. Many have fought and died for the special interests which the government serves, but their efforts have only damaged freedom, their countrymen and themselves. (Yeah, I know, it's a minority opinion, but like everyone else, I AM a minority.)[/b]

Well, the last time the United States was actually invaded by foreign (nominally British, but most were actually conscripts from Canada) troops was during the "War of 1812".  Sorry, but the attack on the Navy Base at Pearl Harbor wasn't an invasion, as Hawaii was a territory, not a state (and there were still folks who remembered when it was an independent kingdom), and if US citizens were pissed off about attacks on US "possessions", the earlier invasion of the Philipines was as good an excuse, if not as dramatic to the US mainlanders, to join the fray FDR so desperately needed to cover his economic failures.

I'm looking to the future in the strip, as I assume that EarthGov is looking for a war with Ceres for the same reason that FDR looked (and finagled) for a war with the Axis, a high fever to mask their domestic failures and distract the plebes.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: SandySandfort on February 22, 2009, 08:32:30 am
I'm looking to the future in the strip, as I assume that EarthGov is looking for a war with Ceres for the same reason that FDR looked (and finagled) for a war with the Axis, a high fever to mask their domestic failures and distract the plebes.

There are any number of reasons that the UW would want to conquer the Belters. The primary carrot and stick are to gain their wealth and to cover up bad economic management at home. Another reason is that those in power don't like it when they are ignored or disobeyed. I you are familiar with the psychology of a bully, you pretty much understand the leadership of all governments.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: wdg3rd on February 22, 2009, 10:26:11 am

[bI you are familiar with the psychology of a bully, you pretty much understand the leadership of all governments.[/b]

I live three blocks away from the storefront where the guys hang out wearing their colors.  (The local Cop Shop).  I'm across the street from the house one of the top thugs grew up in (Captain of Detectives -- drives a white Hummer my property taxes pays the gas for).

I went through Los Angeles public schools until I moved to Nuevo Hampshire for the last three years of high school (there were bullies there too, but I had more street smarts).  I regret leaving there for college (aborted, wound up in the USAF), but I've gained a lot of experience that will help me when I move back up there.  Just waiting for La Esposa to finally realize the town she grew up in isn't worth dying in.  (This town was named after General Philip Kearny, one of the less incompetent Union generals until he was killed by "friendly fire", nephew of Colonel Stephen Kearny who conquered California for the US by surrounding the national capital of California at San Jose with thousands of Federal troops [not mentioned in my grade school "History of California" lessons] ).
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: KBCraig on February 23, 2009, 12:45:04 am
Well, the last time the United States was actually invaded by foreign (nominally British, but most were actually conscripts from Canada) troops was during the "War of 1812".

I suppose that depends on "invasion" requiring a certain scale, because the Germans certainly invaded (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pastorius) during WWII, albeit in small groups and wearing civilian clothes. Today we would call that a "special forces operation".


Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Leviathan on February 23, 2009, 05:19:14 am
Well, invasion implies a concerted effort to take territory between two powers.  In an anarchy, that would be a government invading sovereign individuals really.  The agents in question weren't so much invaders as they were engaging in "strategic disruption", could call it terrorism, without any aims of removing territory. 

And it was about the only threat Germany could've posed on this side of the pond.  They couldn't even capture England, ffs!  Even without lend-lease, they weren't in a position to do it.  All lend-lease maybe allowed England was a little more retaliatory ability.  They were losing Africa before we ever got involved.  Russia, thanks to harsh climate, wasn't in danger of succumbing anytime soon.  Germany stretched as far as it could, and it was going to die on its own.  The only people they were a threat to were their own, like any state.
Title: Re: Extended stay...
Post by: Rocketman on February 23, 2009, 09:58:34 am
Your also leaving out the "Alaska" invasion by the Japanese in WW2 but of course Alaska was only a territory back then and not a full state.