myrkul999 on November 02, 2012, 01:05:21 pm
Also a number of other modifications to the laws such as the introduction of a "Zeroth" law that required robots to not harm humanity as a whole.

That one, if I recall correctly, came about by itself, and only in one robot.

Tucci78 on November 04, 2012, 10:38:57 pm
Well, this post got removed to "Talk Amongst Y'selves" even though it does belong on this thread.

Also a number of other modifications to the laws such as the introduction of a "Zeroth" law that required robots to not harm humanity as a whole.

That one, if I recall correctly, came about by itself, and only in one robot.

Oh yes.  It was sort of philosophized into existance by the robot Giscard.(sp?) and subsequently adopted by Daneel Olivaw.  The additions/subtractions and "interpretations" of the laws happened at different times with different groups.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 07:26:39 am by Tucci78 »
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

Scott on November 04, 2012, 10:49:05 pm
At roughly this point this thread veered off into some really unpleasant and verbose dick-waving between you and graphictruth. If a few on-topic comments which came afterward got moved along with the garbage, that is regrettable. Collateral damage and all that. I'm sure redwood elf would understand.

gene on November 05, 2012, 12:37:17 am
Seems any wing spreading by Nichole is on hold also. Back to "Negotiations".
Come back to the trees; all is forgibben. Mom

Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 07:31:32 am
At roughly this point this thread veered off into some really unpleasant and verbose dick-waving between you and graphictruth. If a few on-topic comments which came afterward got moved along with the garbage, that is regrettable. Collateral damage and all that. I'm sure redwood elf would understand.

I doubt there's much capacity to "understand" anything in that quarter, but what the hell.

It was when I'd taken note of the re-arrangement in this thread that I recalled Arondell's response to myrkul999's Reply #30 here, and realized it had gotten scooped up inadvertently. 

I took what compensatory/corrective measure the posting system permits a non-administrator, and I hope that these participants will thereby be able to resume their exchange as it pleases them to do.
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

bret on November 05, 2012, 08:27:32 am
I'm kind of curious as to when kicks were added to the Lemba-Aikido.

It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

Given what we have seen of Mars, I wouldn't expect the thugs to know that Luna shaves the heads of convicts with implants. Huoxingian's seem rather isolationist and arrogant to me. I can't see learning the details of some other culture's penal system being important to most of them.

In any case, it looks like she has a bit more learning to do in how to apply her martial arts training (including use of weapons) to street fighting.

customdesigned on November 05, 2012, 08:48:51 am


In any case, it looks like she has a bit more learning to do in how to apply her martial arts training (including use of weapons) to street fighting.

She's lucky she lives in a comic universe.  Our world very often doesn't give you another chance.

Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 08:53:53 am
It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

How far into the posited future is Quantum Vibe set?

Now think back an equivalent period of time and consider how martial arts have changed in that interval.

Then contemplate the fact that Aikido was developed in the acceleration field on the surface of the Earth, and Ms. Oresme had (per the stipulations in QV) taken up the study of Lemba-Aikido on L-5, where there's only a putative electrogravitic mechanism to be "keeping connection with the ground" among the Elf Hivers. 

This is science fiction, kiddo.  SF writers can get away with all kindsa stuff by way of inducing "the willing suspension of disbelief" on the part of their readers. 

Sam Moskowitz used to lecture about it at SF conventions, even after he had his laryngectomy.
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

bret on November 05, 2012, 09:18:22 am
It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

How far into the posited future is Quantum Vibe set?

Now think back an equivalent period of time and consider how martial arts have changed in that interval.

Then contemplate the fact that Aikido was developed in the acceleration field on the surface of the Earth, and Ms. Oresme had (per the stipulations in QV) taken up the study of Lemba-Aikido on L-5, where there's only a putative electrogravitic mechanism to be "keeping connection with the ground" among the Elf Hivers. 

This is science fiction, kiddo.  SF writers can get away with all kindsa stuff by way of inducing "the willing suspension of disbelief" on the part of their readers. 

Sam Moskowitz used to lecture about it at SF conventions, even after he had his laryngectomy.

Chess being expanded to multi-dimentions was still recognizable as chess. If you are going to take the name of something, make sure it is more than just as a cool sounding set of syllables.

Although the block looks wrong to me, I could see a block as a set up for the throw in this strip http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=478 being an Aikido throw. She isn't handling the multiple attackers very well though. Aikido does train for handling multiple attackers.

Low or no gravity would cause interesting changes in the martial arts. It would be interesting to speculate on exactly what that would mean to the various forms. In order to do a good job of that though, you have to understand enough of the base to extrapolate and preserve enough of it to recognizable. Without that you get the sound of explosions in space, panels made to explode when things go wrong, and space ships that bank in order to turn.

Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 10:00:16 am
Chess being expanded to multi-dimentions was still recognizable as chess. If you are going to take the name of something, make sure it is more than just as a cool sounding set of syllables.

I can't disagree too strenuously with that (though as a lifelong wargamer I have to observe that there's no more reason why chess should continue to be played in a hypothetical interplanetary future than that there should be a sustained craze for pachisi, mancala, or snakes-and-ladders). 

Some decades ago, I had an elderly patient who was not only a student of Aikido but had written a book on the art, and he made sure to put a copy in my hands.  I never became a practitioner of the discipline, and haven't looked into the subject since at least the close of the Reagan Administration, but it seemed to me from the moment our hosts inserted Nicole's tearful protestations about having studied this "Lemba" stuff (and her membership in the Aikido-Lemba League) in the aftermath of having whacked one of the assassins sent to finish her off on Mercury in case she didn't get satisfactorily sucked to death, I did think that it was unwise to engraft upon the Quantum Vibe plenum all the baggage that goes along with Aikido as we know it today. 

Beyond that, however, I figured - for reasons I'd stipulated above - that it really wasn't an itch that warranted scratching. 

You do.  May I recommend an antihistamine?
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 10:05:40 am
Yeah, I haven't seen anything that even remotely resembled an Aikido move yet. Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities. The philosophy, too, stresses defense. Active, but patient defense. Not "the best defense is a good offense," which is clearly her tactic here. Maybe she's just not very good at Aikido-Lemba.

Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 10:49:22 am
Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities.

I was gonna resist, honest, but....

So when had Aikido (or even "re-directing your attacker's momentum") been shown to work "better in lower gravities," eh?
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 11:12:48 am
Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities.

I was gonna resist, honest, but....

So when had Aikido (or even "re-directing your attacker's momentum") been shown to work "better in lower gravities," eh?

OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. Force goes 'round the pivot, and heads off largely unabated, in another direction. Surely, getting a good hip-toss done in microgravity is going to be a bit harder, but slingshotting your attacker into a nearby bulkhead should be relatively easy.

It all comes down to this: the defender can anchor him/herself, while the attacker is, by definition, an object in motion. Changing the direction of that motion is a simple matter, compared to stopping that motion.

Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 11:32:09 am
OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. ...

Tsk.  You're missing the critical point.

"The enemy's gate is down."
"I is a great believer in peaceful settlements," Jik-jik assured him. "Ain't nobody as peaceful as a dead trouble-maker."
-- Keith Laumer, Retief's War (1966)

myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 12:34:02 pm
OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. ...

Tsk.  You're missing the critical point.

"The enemy's gate is down."

Fair point, I seem to recall the sling-shot maneuver being used to good effect by both teams.