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Author Topic: A Disturbing Trend  (Read 9204 times)
Oldhobo
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« on: October 28, 2012, 05:30:02 pm »

I love the comic, but I really hope that "Nicole spreads her wings, get wings almost surgically removed on new planet" does not become a theme.  On Luna she went out on her own got into trouble and now on Mars it is happening again.  I realize that she's the vehicle through which we are supposed to experience things and that a worldly character staying in their hotel room, ordering room service and minding their own business would not make a good story but surely there's some middle ground where Nicole's character begins to learn from her mistakes?  I mean yeah, she hired a bodyguard but them left them at the clinic.  Additionally I realize that people are after them.  A lot of the things they are doing would not be considered dangerous if they weren't marked but if you could find other ways to move the plot forward besides "girl in trouble," my hat would be off to you.
Respectfully,
-O
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myrkul999
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2012, 06:20:51 pm »

Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.
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gene
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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 12:16:47 am »

I suspect any sense of deja-vu is about to disappear. They are not authority figures just muggers. This bunch have already threatened Ventura implicitly and are trying to look intimidating. She has no reason not to protect herself and I believe she has non-lethal options in her zringer. I'm going to double back to Mercury and Venus  and see what her beliefs cover, then edit this comment.
OK here are transcripts from after the Mercury assassination attempt:
Quote
Nicole: You have to understand when I got my first zringer, I also joined the Aikido-Lemba League.
Stone: You obtained a deadly weapon and then joined a pacifist phyle?
Panel 3
Medium close-up on Nicole.
Nicole: It's more complicated than that the Lembas allow for self-defense.
Nicole: It's just that we they urge using wisdom to avoid having to use force.
Nicole: Avoiding violence is considered 'winning.'
Panel 4
Back to 2-shot of Stone and Nicole, looking completely forlorn.
Nicole: Because I failed to avoid using violence especially deadly force I lost.
Nicole: I'm not a Lemba-Prime anymore.
If Aikido -Lemba includes the martial art Aikido she may not even need her zringer. Even so, she can stun them and not feel too guilty. Theoretically (don't you hate that word in a discussion of moral choices?) she could stun them now with no warning and still consider it a win. No threats, no violence just three thugs sleeping like babies. (Baby rats to quote Bugs Bunny)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 12:34:33 am by gene » Logged

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Redwood Elf
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 02:30:36 pm »

How did Jafar put it in the sequel?

Abis Mal: But Genies can't kill, you said that!
Jafar: You'ld be surprised what you can LIVE THROUGH!
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gene
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2012, 12:23:53 am »

Hoo boy! Change that to I hope she doesn't need her zringer.

Any takers on Ma-Bo as the heroic rescuer? No?
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Oneil
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 01:03:49 am »

Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
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myrkul999
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 06:05:39 am »

Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. Wink

FWIW, It would appear that the Aikido-Lemba league has listened to Sun Tzu: "是故百戰百勝,非善之善者也;不戰而屈人之兵,善之善者也。" (For to win every battle is not the height of skill; to subdue your opponent without fighting is the height of skill.)
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Scott
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 08:42:32 am »

No, it's not Jainism. There is no Brahmacharya or Aparigraha in Nicole's attitude. It's an out-growth of the Non-Aggression Principle, and the Aikido philosophy, and does have some influence from Sun Tsu.

The "Lemba" part refers to Matthew Lemba, a young student of the Shodokan Aikido with Kenji Tomiki in Japan from the time before The Calamities, who returned to the United States and combined that art with Kenpo Karate. The resulting art combined the conflict-avoidance philosophy of the original Aikido, and its throwing and joint-lock techniques, with some of the blocking and striking techniques of Kenpo. In Aikido-Lemba, one tries to avoid conflict, but there is an emphasis on protecting the defenseless, and once combat is begun, it is to be ended quickly as possible without killing or causing permanent injury.
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Redwood Elf
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 10:46:09 am »

Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. Wink

FWIW, It would appear that the Aikido-Lemba league has listened to Sun Tzu: "是故百戰百勝,非善之善者也;不戰而屈人之兵,善之善者也。" (For to win every battle is not the height of skill; to subdue your opponent without fighting is the height of skill.)

Or Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant:

"Do not hurt when holding is enough
Do not wound when hurting is enough
Do not maim when wounding is enough
And kill not when maiming is enough
The greatest warrior is he who does not need to kill"
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graphictruth
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 11:37:34 am »

Hm... apparently her teachers missed the "not going into sketchy areas while carrying bundles of loot" part. I assure you, mine did.

The actual reason given was not pacifistic - the art was supposed to save your life or the lives of others, not your wallet or your pride. And more to the point, if you could conceal knowing it, that was more important than keeping a few valuable trinkets.

Anyway, she does seem to lack situational awareness at times, and it seems she might well have a bright future as a Doctor's Companion.

However - stun/distract the one in the middle with the shopping bags and disable the one to the left - no time for anything subtle, so something that will require some tank time.  

If I were drawing it, it would be something like a forward roll in to pre-empt a kick and striking upward with an open palm - and while the genitals are in the way, the actual idea is to dislocate the pubic bone. He falls over her as she rolls out and up into stance, behind the pair and beside Jessica.

Bounce back to leader, who will have found a weapon by now; likely a knife. (He simply looks like the type to use a knife.) Disarm/disable while using leader as a shield. Unlikely they have trained to fight effectively as a unit. That would be something along the lines of a joint-lock counter to a thrust, combined with a kick to the armpit, spraining and dislocating the elbow and shoulder, as well as the wrist and possibly the thumb, while breaking some ribs. Lung punctures are an intended part of the package here.

If third guy is willing to run, let him. If he produces a weapon, well, she has a knife. If she doesn't care to use a knife (and if you aren't trained to include one in your martial art, you really shouldn't) then she can just throw it at him. however, it's down to one on one, and she can afford to be careful. Time for a taunt or two to get him to make a useful move; she can put him down with some sort of nerve or circulation strike, or simply "break off the corners" until he retreats.

I'm assuming this is already drawn, I just want to see how close I get. Smiley

Of course, I'm ignoring the helpless looking android entirely. I would not be willing to put money down that she was either helpless OR harmless. The "nightingale" almost certainly had bodyguard programming at one time. :}
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Oneil
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2012, 01:19:13 pm »

.....
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. Wink
....

Fair enough.. BTW, not selling a T-shirt, But I love the last paragraph describing "Meh" here..  http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/8753/

Prediction on the fisticuffs,
   I have always admired ones that practice one of the Martial Arts that wait for the other to attack and use that against them.  Wink

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myrkul999
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2012, 01:59:25 pm »

No, it's not Jainism. There is no Brahmacharya or Aparigraha in Nicole's attitude. It's an out-growth of the Non-Aggression Principle, and the Aikido philosophy, and does have some influence from Sun Tsu.

The "Lemba" part refers to Matthew Lemba, a young student of the Shodokan Aikido with Kenji Tomiki in Japan from the time before The Calamities, who returned to the United States and combined that art with Kenpo Karate. The resulting art combined the conflict-avoidance philosophy of the original Aikido, and its throwing and joint-lock techniques, with some of the blocking and striking techniques of Kenpo. In Aikido-Lemba, one tries to avoid conflict, but there is an emphasis on protecting the defenseless, and once combat is begun, it is to be ended quickly as possible without killing or causing permanent injury.

Even in standard Aikido (which I've done some peripheral study of, but can't seem to find a dojo and the money to take classes at the same time), there's not much limit to what can be done to the attacker once they've actually attacked. You can do everything from gently placing them on the ground to flinging them several yards away, either option with or without broken bones or dislocated joints. it is, in my opinion, the perfect "proportional force" martial art.

The base philosophy is also perfectly in line with the NAP. It uses spiritual, rather than pragmatic, reasoning, but the conclusion is the same: Attacking is a bad idea, to which proportional defense is the only rational option. Adding in the "emphasis on protecting the defenseless" makes it perfect for an adherent to the NAP. So, well done selecting a philosophy for Nicole.

If it were my comic, once the combat is joined, I'd have her distract one or hopefully two of the thugs with the shopping bags ("Here, catch!" works more often than you would think), and take the third out with a face-plant into the alley wall. Aikido is great for these sorts of things, you simply let the attacker come in, grab him for a dosado, and eject towards a nearby surface. The other two will either come in one at a time (and get flung heavenward) or at the same time (and end up hitting each other). I suppose a third option is that they flee, seeing that Nicole was not easy mark they thought she was. Grab Ventura, the shopping bags, and skeedaddle. But it's not my comic, so I look forward to seeing how you do it. Smiley
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UncleRice
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2012, 02:17:15 pm »

As far as I'm concerned, these guys right to their well being ceased as soon as they stole something. They initiated aggression. The exact tactic and how far she should go depends on her combat skills and what the potential consequences are.
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gene
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 06:42:42 pm »

Having seen Scott's explaination of Aikido-Lemba, I'm doubling my bet on Nichole; 100 Quatloos for three KOs in four panels. If they are armed for melee, six panels.

Darn! There go my Quatloos. Those bad boys do not know what they are doing, more used to rolling drunks. Next they will unzip and wave their toys around  Cool . That will buy them time while Nichole points and giggles. Then she's really going to hurt them.

She's not spreading her wings but she is showing her talons.

Quote
As far as I'm concerned, these guys right to their well being ceased as soon as they stole something. They initiated aggression. The exact tactic and how far she should go depends on her combat skills and what the potential consequences are.

After her last legal encounter she will call Smith & Holder first then call the coppers from the S&H offices. Once she is under S&H's aegis and they send a minder to check on Buford, Ma-Bo can go home once more having been a total failure.  Sad

Then we can have another six panels of Seamus snoring while the conspirators do their Blackadder impersonation and put their collective foot in deeper.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:05:09 am by gene » Logged

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dough560
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2012, 03:56:47 pm »

So far, so good.  While working within different schools of martial arts, we each have our own interpretation and technique which work for our physique and mindset.  At 6'2" my techniques differ from a woman's who is substantially smaller.  For that matter, techniques I used to breakup bar fights differ from those utilized to defend from a street attack.  In the first instance, i don't want to send my suspect to the emergency room, if it is avoidable.  In the second incidence, what ever works in the shortest amount of time.  This can leave a lasting impression.  On individuals, walls or whatever is handy.
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