Rocketman on January 27, 2008, 03:10:53 pm
I read a story awhile back about a world traveler who instead of going to London, Hong Kong or other places like who went to backwoods places like the Kalahari Desert and places like that.  He was constantly amazed by what people could accomplished if they were left alone.  Shoe manufacturing over 6 hours away from the nearest town of any size.  Homemade windmills made from cow skins that could pump water deep out of the ground.  People by themselves can accomplish alot if the don't have government "helping" them. :'(  :'( :'(

H. Rearden on January 27, 2008, 07:36:43 pm
I read a story awhile back about a world traveler who instead of going to London, Hong Kong or other places like who went to backwoods places like the Kalahari Desert and places like that.  He was constantly amazed by what people could accomplished if they were left alone.  Shoe manufacturing over 6 hours away from the nearest town of any size.  Homemade windmills made from cow skins that could pump water deep out of the ground.  People by themselves can accomplish alot if the don't have government "helping" them. :'(  :'( :'(

They can but that does not mean that they will. Pre-Columbian Indians and even Indians of the 15th-19th centuries for the most part (the Powhatans of Virginia being an exceptian as well as the Aztecs, Myans etc...) did not have a powerful central government. They lived in small tribes and had  chieftans and a small local government if any. Some Indians were rather anarchistic. some tribes and no real government to speak of. Well they did not seem interested in making advancements in technology. They were rather primative and fought wars over land and resources. The same was true of African tribes as well. why didn't they advance in terms of technology like the Asians and Europeans did? When Marco Polo visted China at that time in history the Chinese people in some respects were more advanced than Europeans were. Just because people are capable of acomplishing things dioesn't mean that they will.

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 07:38:30 pm by H. Rearden »

Rocketman on January 27, 2008, 08:22:31 pm
I can't argue with anything that you just said, but I think most primitive small government people who come into contact with technology seem to have an innate desire to want to have it.  Because they have never seen it before they didn't know that such a thing even existed.  You see on TV where an explorer goes into the deepest jungle and discovers a lost tribe of humans who have never seen a cigarette lighter for example.  That lighter becomes a status symbol among the people in the tribe.  One of the funniest movies that I have ever seen illustrates it perfectly "The gods must be crazy"  ;D

H. Rearden on January 27, 2008, 09:38:43 pm
I can't argue with anything that you just said, but I think most primitive small government people who come into contact with technology seem to have an innate desire to want to have it.  Because they have never seen it before they didn't know that such a thing even existed.  You see on TV where an explorer goes into the deepest jungle and discovers a lost tribe of humans who have never seen a cigarette lighter for example.  That lighter becomes a status symbol among the people in the tribe.  One of the funniest movies that I have ever seen illustrates it perfectly "The gods must be crazy"  ;D

You have brought up a good point. American Indians have a history of being very religious. Religion was a large part of a tribe's culture. A primative tribe might see people with modern technology as gods. Perhaps their spirituality or religion may have been a reason why they did not advance. Some people believe that European cultures would have advanced more quickly if it had not been for religion or at least a politically powerful religious class or church. THe Powhatan Indians wore sqaure pieces of copper around their necks. They valued copper. Some tribes stopped making things such as pots because they would trade with Whites for metal pots because metal pots lasted longer then the ones they made which were not metal. I do find it intersting that the Iroquois Confederacy for centuries had a democratic system of government but those in positions of leadership could not profit from being in their position. Spoils of war could not be kept soley in the hands of those in leadership.

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Rocketman on January 27, 2008, 10:20:09 pm
"Some people believe that European cultures would have advanced more quickly if it had not been for religion or at least a politically powerful religious class or church."  For about 800 years after the fall of Rome if you invented something new or made a pronouncement that the church didn't like, for example that the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the church back then would declare the device or you to be the work of the devil and have you burned at the stake.  During this time there was almost no technological progress at least in Europe.  They didn't call it "the dark ages" for nothing.   ;)

H. Rearden on January 27, 2008, 11:02:10 pm
I can't argue with anything that you just said, but I think most primitive small government people who come into contact with technology seem to have an innate desire to want to have it.  Because they have never seen it before they didn't know that such a thing even existed.  You see on TV where an explorer goes into the deepest jungle and discovers a lost tribe of humans who have never seen a cigarette lighter for example.  That lighter becomes a status symbol among the people in the tribe.  One of the funniest movies that I have ever seen illustrates it perfectly "The gods must be crazy"  ;D

Prior to the forced removal of Indians to Oklahoma many Cherokee had voluntarily assimilated or adopted the lifestyle of non-Indians in America. Some had become farmers. The names of the Principal Chiefs of the Cherokee goind back to 1840 are European names. They even adopted the remedy of filing a law suit by suing the Jackson administration and the Supreme court ruled in their but Van Buren defied the court and forced them to Oklahoma. That's right it was VAn Buren not Jackson who was the POTUS during the Trail of Tears.

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Dr. No on April 14, 2008, 08:24:39 pm
I can't argue with anything that you just said, but I think most primitive small government people who come into contact with technology seem to have an innate desire to want to have it.  Because they have never seen it before they didn't know that such a thing even existed.  You see on TV where an explorer goes into the deepest jungle and discovers a lost tribe of humans who have never seen a cigarette lighter for example.  That lighter becomes a status symbol among the people in the tribe.  One of the funniest movies that I have ever seen illustrates it perfectly "The gods must be crazy"  ;D

Prior to the forced removal of Indians to Oklahoma many Cherokee had voluntarily assimilated or adopted the lifestyle of non-Indians in America. Some had become farmers. The names of the Principal Chiefs of the Cherokee goind back to 1840 are European names. They even adopted the remedy of filing a law suit by suing the Jackson administration and the Supreme court ruled in their but Van Buren defied the court and forced them to Oklahoma. That's right it was VAn Buren not Jackson who was the POTUS during the Trail of Tears.

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Van Buren should have been arrested and charged with the various crimes he committed. Murder and Treason are not Offenses that a President is Immune from. State Court is where this should have been pursued.