Who has, or has read, 'TPB' ?

Yes, I have read it.
I'm reading it.
well...I have it!
Haven't read it.
cnold on September 16, 2006, 03:47:35 pm
I read it, but I backended to it.    Found The Venus Belt in a bookstore first, cover was weird but when I read the back cover it was love at first sight.    Back in those days I was a sucker for alternate history fiction.   First 20 pages confused the heck out of me, because I hadn't read The Probability Broach first, had to read them three times, read the rest of the book.    Couldn't locate The Probability Broach anywhere(It may have been out of print, or something) until I located a used copy that had the front cover missing, and paid $0.50 for it(Illegal?   Possibly.   I was desperate).   Loved it even more.

-3- on October 17, 2006, 03:51:24 pm
The "gorilla cover" prose book was the first edition, published in December 1979 (although most stores didn't get it until early 1980). It's something of a collectors' item now among Smithophiles, although I can't tell you what that means in terms of resale value.


Resale value isn't a concern - who's going to sell their copy?
Just thoroughly depressed that the first edition cover didn't make the 5000 mile trek to the new location. I definitely ready to read it again, but I'll have to grab a new copy. Good thing I've got the graphic novel to tide me over until I do, eh?  ;)
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Felix Felix on November 01, 2006, 04:53:55 pm
I haven't but I'm getting into this comic version.  I actually wasn't aware that this was a novel first.  I'm interested in discussing or debating some of the philosophies behind this story.

-3- on November 02, 2006, 05:20:46 pm
I haven't but I'm getting into this comic version.  I actually wasn't aware that this was a novel first.  I'm interested in discussing or debating some of the philosophies behind this story.

Actually, it's the first of a series of books. I think they are, in order of publication:
   
The Probability Broach
The Venus Belt
Their Majesties' Bucketeers
The Nagasaki Vector
Tom Paine Maru
The Gallatin Divergence
Brightsuit MacBear
Taflak Lysandra
The American Zone


Odds are I'm forgetting one or more though, or got one out of order. And there may be something newer than presented on my list. (I'm shamefully behind in my readings of El Neil's works) I'm sure someone else will correct me if that's the case. But you can also find more of Neil's compelling philosophies presented in many of his other works, too. (Like Roswell, Texas, for instance)

There's a great deal worth discussion & debate. It shouldn't be too hard to find some of us willing to engage. ;)

===
that -3- guy
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blog: http://www.artof3.com/3rdroad
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wdg3rd on November 02, 2006, 10:40:01 pm
That's the whole set in publication order.  The chronological order, of course, is all over the place (especially with the time travel in TNV and TGD).

There are also connections between the North American Confederacy series and some other, nomitively unrelated novels -- explicitly so in Forge of the Elders and a passing glimpse in The Crystal Empire.  (And I bet most folks miss that latter one).
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

cls12vg30 on November 03, 2006, 10:58:40 am
You bet I've read it.  Several times.  Usually followed immediately by The American Zone, both of which I own, along with The Venus Belt.  All are fun, but not necessarily a series.  The American Zone was written much later, but is written as a sole sequel to The Probability Broach, and seems to disregard the events of any of the other books, so I view (and read) TPB and TAZ as a pair, with the other books as semi-related stories set in the same universe with the same characters.

I'm new here, I just discovered the PB graphic novel's web-based existence yesterday, I'm not sure how I missed it before, since I have been keeping up with Roswell, Texas, for some time now.  I knew of the existence of the TPB graphic novel, and had always casually looked for it at bookstores, but never found it, and never got around to buying it from Amazon.  I first discovered TPB just about two years ago, when my eye was drawn to the fantastic cover of The American Zone in my local library.  I checked it out, took it home and began reading it, and immediately realized it was a sequel and that I had to read the predecessor first, so back to the library I went and checked out The Probability Broach.  Since then I've turned several other people on to the book, usually after a political debate or discussion.

Scott on November 10, 2006, 12:06:58 am
Quote
Felix: I'm interested in discussing or debating some of the philosophies behind this story.

I'm up for that, sure. The core principle behind N.A.C. philosopy is something sometimes called the Zero-Aggression Principle. Which states that no one has the right to initiate force, or threaten or advocate the initiation of force (I prefer "incite" to "advocate" but I'm using Neil's formulation here) against another person, for any reason whatsoever. To clarify, initiation of force means, for example, starting a brawl, invading someone's rightful property, taking something that doesn't belong to you.

Defensive force -- using force to prevent someone from raping, robbing, or killing you -- is on the other hand perfectly ethical. Note that force can only be defensive if someone has threatened to initate or actually initiated force into the situation.

A corollary to the Z.A.P. is a theory of self-ownership and private property. You own your own life, and you own the products of your thinking, your labor, and your investment -- the products of your life. You can never own anyone else's life or property, although you can rent or purchase these things with the owner's permission.

I'll stop here and await questions.

-3- on November 10, 2006, 02:49:54 pm
I think another very important philosphy in the NAC that doesn't get as much attention is simple acknowledgement. It doesn't matter who (or what) you are. If you can stand up for yourself, your right to do so is accepted by the society at large. That, keyed with the concept of self-ownership, is one of the most profound differences between our world and theirs. Without it as a base, the ZAP principles wouldn't stand nearly as strong.

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Frankjc3rd on November 10, 2006, 07:35:38 pm
I haven't but I'm getting into this comic version.  I actually wasn't aware that this was a novel first.  I'm interested in discussing or debating some of the philosophies behind this story.

Actually, it's the first of a series of books. I think they are, in order of publication:
   
The Probability Broach
The Venus Belt
Their Majesties' Bucketeers
The Nagasaki Vector
Tom Paine Maru
The Gallatin Divergence
Brightsuit MacBear
Taflak Lysandra
The American Zone


Odds are I'm forgetting one or more though, or got one out of order. And there may be something newer than presented on my list. (I'm shamefully behind in my readings of El Neil's works) I'm sure someone else will correct me if that's the case. But you can also find more of Neil's compelling philosophies presented in many of his other works, too. (Like Roswell, Texas, for instance)

There's a great deal worth discussion & debate. It shouldn't be too hard to find some of us willing to engage. ;)


[/size]

     There was a short story titled "The Spirit of Xmas Sideways" that I found first.  I then sought out the other books.  There are also two others, "Henry Martyn" and "Bretta Martyn" that are actually offshoots of a "B" story in "The Venus Belt".
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wdg3rd on November 13, 2006, 11:19:53 am
     There was a short story titled "The Spirit of Xmas Sideways" that I found first.  I then sought out the other books.  There are also two others, "Henry Martyn" and "Bretta Martyn" that are actually offshoots of a "B" story in "The Venus Belt".

There's also the Bernie Greenblum story "Embarrasment Box" that was published in Samuel Edward Konkin III's "New Libertarian Magazine" (the Heinlein Memorial issue).  Was the first piece by Neil that I read, having ignored his stuff for a decade due to the ugly covers Ballantine/Del Rey had put on his books.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Rocketman on November 26, 2006, 01:58:09 pm
I have not read the Bernie Greenblum story "Embarrasment Box" although I do own all of the others except for the "American Zone" which I found at the public library of all places.   I think that my favorite character in all of the series is Howell the Coyote.  I can relate on so many levels.

wdg3rd on November 26, 2006, 06:39:45 pm
I have not read the Bernie Greenblum story "Embarrasment Box" although I do own all of the others except for the "American Zone" which I found at the public library of all places.   I think that my favorite character in all of the series is Howell the Coyote.  I can relate on so many levels.
Unfortunately, "New Libertarian" is the only place the story has been published.  Unless Neil finds somewhere else to print or post it.  I dom't have any idea what the status of the rights on the story are, although I was under the impression that SEK3 did not retain them.  You might be able to find a second-hand copy of the magazine somewhere, but with SEK3's death obviously no new copies are being printed.  (I have no idea as to the rights on his publications -- I guess Kent Hastings would be the man to ask).
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

JPinAZ on November 29, 2006, 03:23:01 pm
A quick search led me to this:

http://www.kopubco.com/nl187.html

Rocketman on November 29, 2006, 05:55:14 pm
JPinAZ:
     Thanks Mucho!  That's one I owe you! ;D  ;D  ;D

wdg3rd on November 29, 2006, 07:54:58 pm
Well, it looks like Vic Koman's back on the ball.  I'd sort of lost track of him for a while after he didn't make to LFScon.  (He decided to stay home in CA and get his CompSci degree rather than hang out with the largest concentration of libertarian SF writers in one place in history).  His old Triplanetry site went into the ozone long ago.  Doing a quick Google, I see he now has a blog.

If any of you have missed Vic's fiction, I highly recommend it.  He didn't win three Prometheus awards by accident.  Although the digital version of Kings of the High Frontier is apparently unavailable (the order link at www.pulpless.com has been broken for a long time), there's a hardcover release with absolutely beautiful jacket art.  www.bereshith.com sells it.  I have that, plus one remaining digital license of the more than a dozen I bought to hand on floppies to libertarian fellow-travellers and to statists I thought could be corrupted to the good side.  I also have a copy in Word format I got from Vic at the San Antonio Worldcon when he got his Prometheus for a book that had never to that point been released on paper.  The Jevohah Contract and Solomon's Knife are also damned fine reading.

Oh, the bulk of that issue of New Libertarian is a round robin story, "The Prometheus Meltdown" with contributions by Vic, Brad Lineaweaver, L. Neil Smith, J. Neil Schulman, Robert Anton Wilson and probably a writer or two I've missed.  (My copy is in a box somewhere else in this attic, along with many other tonnes of books and such, all unmarked).  It's a fun, if by its nature disjointed, story.  Helps to have read Vic's The Jehovah Contract, Neil Schulman's The Rainbow Cadenza, Illuminatus! and Heinlein's "World as Myth" books..
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot