mtlwriterguy on September 29, 2006, 01:59:47 pm
Hi!

I've been really enjoying Roswell, Texas. With the possible exception of Captain Confederacy, easily the best alternate history comic I've ever read.

If you look back in the old Captain Conferedacy letter columns, you'll see that Will Shetterly and I used to correspond endlessly about the shape of Canada in his parallel South-won-the-Civil-War world. Now that Canada seems to be playing a role in your storyline, I can't help but stick my 2 cents in.

Granted that this is a (VERY) parallel world, the Canadian flag displayed prominently on the Lancaster bomber on page 182 seems extremely unlikely, historically. We're in the year 1947 in your alternate timeline, and Canada didn't adopt the current Maple Leaf flag until 1965 in the real word.

Until then, Canada flew a semi-official ensign based on the British Red Ensign, as per  www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/images/flag_red_ensign.gif. It took 30 years of constant slogging to get rid of the old ensign, in part because of atavistic connections to the Empire, and because Canadians fought under it in two world wars. When the new flag was finally adopted, it was a product of clean, 1960's graphic design, with a highly stylized Maple Leaf that was a complete break with the designs of the past.

Some wacky alternate designs were suggested over the years, any one of which might have ended up as Canada's real flag:

Some samples:

http://www.inglewoodcarecentre.com/history/historyflags.htm

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/PotentialCanadianFlags.jpg

Thanks!


P.S.: Hmmm. Is it just me, or does this post sound distressingly like one of those "Captain America clearly did not meet Thor until Avengers #4..." continuity screeds? Great. I've invented flag continuity. Shoot me now.


mtlwriterguy on September 29, 2006, 03:14:52 pm
Just found a much better page of alternate Canadian flags. Some of these came very close to being adopted (the Red Ensign with maple leaf designs) during World War II, but the government was preoccupied with other things.

http://www.fotw.net/flags/ca!.html

Scroll up and down the page to see all the designs. None of these were actually ever adopted, of course. Probably a good thing in the end. If they'd adopted a maple leaf red ensign, Just like the Aussies and the New Zealanders, we'd probably still be stuck with the Union Jack in our flag.


Zen Redneck on September 29, 2006, 09:38:50 pm
Hmm.  Well, in an infinite number of alternate universes, you're going to have coincidences.   As far as Canada is concerned, the US gained a big chunk of it in the war James Polk waged instead of a war with Mexico.  But it remained in the Empire until WWII, when the UK was conquered and went Nazi, and Canada housed the British government in exile, but it was at the same time occupied by the US and was only technically an independent country by 1947.

Anyhow, can we ponder that the Maple Leaf idea might well have become a symbol of Canada without actually being the _flag_ of Canada?  I'm groping here.

Redem on September 30, 2006, 11:45:50 am
Hum was Canada  invade during WWII? or was it during the 1846 war?

(considering Canada didn't exist in 1846, at least not out of the North-East)

mtlwriterguy on September 30, 2006, 02:44:42 pm

Anyhow, can we ponder that the Maple Leaf idea might well have become a symbol of Canada without actually being the _flag_ of Canada?  I'm groping here.

Actually, that was the historical reality until 1965. The maple leaf was an unofficial symbol of Canada long before Confederation in 1867. Possibly before the Plains of Abraham and the conquest of New France by Britain. Canadian soliders in WWI and Olympic athletes all wore maple leaf badges well before the Maple Leaf flag was adopted (although a small sprig of maple leaves DO appear in the 1926 Canadian coat-of-arms, which was on the Red Ensign). To this day, New Zealand's national symbol is the silver fern leaf and Australia's is the kangaroo, but neither symbol actually appears on their respective flags.

Anyhow, I'm willing to concede coincidence and assume that this alternate Canada adopted an identical flag to our "real" 1965 flag at least 20 years earlier. That would imply a tremendously different history of graphic design, as well as North American history, but that's what alternate histories are for, right? Any other explanation would be needlessly complicated.

Scott on October 16, 2006, 06:21:19 pm
The obvious solution: The plane is not registered to the government of Canada, but to "Air Canada," a corporation which is a front for their spy bureau.


Zen Redneck on October 17, 2006, 12:21:22 pm
Scott: Perfect.   BTW, to avoid the whole controversy, we could just change the red bars in the flag to blue, which I understand was indeed one idea for the flag, the blue meant to represent the two oceans.  But controversy is fun.

Redem on October 17, 2006, 03:16:04 pm
The obvious solution: The plane is not registered to the government of Canada, but to "Air Canada," a corporation which is a front for their spy bureau.



Well so basicly a private corporation can still fly a bomber craft into foreign territory without too much problem?

Space Patton! on October 21, 2006, 09:01:27 pm
Appartently not, as we can see from this weeks strip. Also, someone metioned Canada housing the British Royal family. What parts of the empire sided with that faction, and what parts sided with the British-run Third Reich?

wdg3rd on October 22, 2006, 01:50:11 am
Appartently not, as we can see from this weeks strip. Also, someone metioned Canada housing the British Royal family. What parts of the empire sided with that faction, and what parts sided with the British-run Third Reich?
Well, the stupid parts of the empire sided with the one, and the stupider parts of the empire sided with the other.  Dunno what the smart parts did, we haven't (yet?) been shown a geopolitical map of most of the planet.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Zen Redneck on October 22, 2006, 08:18:26 am
Pretty much.  Canada, being US-dominated more than in OTL, was the logical destination for the Royals, as the US had sided with Britain till the defeat.  But Australia, NZ, and South Africa went with the trend and were allied to National Socialist Britain.

Space Patton! on October 22, 2006, 05:18:24 pm
Wait, the US was fighting in Rosworld's version of WWII? In the 1940's the US was pretty isolantionist, and it took Pearl Harbor to actually get us in the war, and there was no pacific war in this world, so I can't see the US just siding with the Brits when Rohm invades Poland. Also, on the topic of the British Empire, what's the status of India? The Kukri rifles are from Nepal (I think) so whats up?

Scott on October 25, 2006, 07:09:54 pm
Until Pearl Harbor, the American public was mostly anti-interventionist, but the administration certainly wasn't. FDR was supporting Britain with Lend-Lease and various clandestine programs, and trying various schemes to provoke a German attack on American shipping, to get us into the war the same way Wilson got us into WWI. The Nazis didn't fall for that one in OTL, having remembered what happened in the last war. But the Japanese did take the bait, and their being allied with Germany was all it took for us to get into the European war.




Space Patton! on October 25, 2006, 09:59:12 pm
But, according to the comic, the U.S has no west coast, and Hawaii is run by the Californians, so how would the Japs bombing Pearl Harbor get the U.S into the war? Also, I've gotten the feeling that Texas is very anti - Nazi, and so Japs would be as wel, being their allies. Speaking of Nazi-Texas relations, why didn't the Federated States fight in WWII? They were okay about nuking Berlin. Maybe the large German faction of the population pushed against it, the same way the Polish-Americans pushed for intervention in Europe in OTL? Just putting it out there. Finally, what's the deal with India?

Zen Redneck on October 26, 2006, 02:01:26 pm
To summarize, the US enters the war in 1941 to help out the Brits and Russians.  Something analagous to Pearl Harbor was worked out by FDR.  Texas mobilized as much as it legally can without declaring war on anybody, occupying to some extent the Mormon Strip, taking seriously its role as a buffer between the US and California.  The US is with the allies, and California, under President-for-Live Wm Randolph Hearst,  has a close relationship to Germany without actually being allied.  (When Hearst dies and Disney takes over in 1944, California begins distancing itself from the Axis.)

Then Britain falls and is absorbed by the Axis.  As in OTL, a lot of Brits are pro-Nazi anyway, especially the gay-rights types, and it's integrated more easily than France was, with Churchill playing the role of Pétain.  Ireland draws the line at its own shores, and when the Brit/Nazis ignore the warning, the IRA blows Berlin up, and the surviving Nazi leaders rally around Edward VIII largely out of fear of civil war.  Edward's a leader the SA and the Wehrmacht can agree on.

Japan and Texas manage to stay neutral, owing to Texas' demonstration of its nuclear capability.

And the US does have a West Coast — what is now Washington State and most of British Columbia.

The Kukri Rifles are among the British troops that got out and made it to Canada.  In 1947, India's in limbo, still part of the Empire legally, but torn between Hindu and Moslem, pro-Axis, pro-free Britain, and pro-independence.