Rocketman on February 16, 2009, 05:42:59 am
Ah. The ultimate question has finally been asked.  Why do you think that if you were left alone that you would be better off?  And the proper answer is the one that Odysseus gave "And why do you think that we would be worse?"  Exactly.  :(

Lun-Sei on February 17, 2009, 02:38:36 am
And instead of opening another thread, I'll use this one to comment on the last pages!
I'm loving this philosophical dialogue between Odysseus and Poseidon. By their conversation, I can really feel the immense power of the god, so much that humans are less than ants for him and for his equals. I also love the tone of their speeches: it almost feel like there's a sort of awkward friendship between the two. In fact, Poseidon does bother so much about humiliating Odysseus, that you can feel that deep inside he does consider him more than a mere ant. Maybe deep inside the mighty god is somewhat scared of Odysseus'cold intelligence.

EDIT

Oh, and I forgot to add -I've noticed a slight difference in the way Poseidon is being drawn. Now you see a lot more whirls and waves on his watery body.


Rocketman on February 17, 2009, 05:58:02 am
Lun-Sei:  That's pretty much what I saw in that exchange as well.  It seems to me that the fact they're even having the disagreement between them shows a certain amount of equality between the two.  Something that I doubt that the other gods would approve of if they found out about it.  Maybe it's because Poseidon realizes that if mankind no longer worships the Gods that the twilight of the Gods lies just before him.

Scott on February 19, 2009, 12:49:25 am
Lun-Sei: Yes, I did change the way I draw Poseidon just a bit.

The reason had less to do with story-symbolism than it did with me being dissatisfied with the way I was drawing him earlier, so I changed technique a bit. I hope it's not a distraction.

Lun-Sei on February 21, 2009, 04:09:34 am
Lun-Sei: Yes, I did change the way I draw Poseidon just a bit.

The reason had less to do with story-symbolism than it did with me being dissatisfied with the way I was drawing him earlier, so I changed technique a bit. I hope it's not a distraction.




Oh, now I just know I'll sound like I'm always complaining about something...... but personally, I felt Poseidon's body  felt more "watery" in the way it was drawn before. However, it's not much of a difference after all, and if the author prefers the new version, who am I to complain?  ;D

wdg3rd on February 22, 2009, 08:41:28 am
Lun-Sei: Yes, I did change the way I draw Poseidon just a bit.

The reason had less to do with story-symbolism than it did with me being dissatisfied with the way I was drawing him earlier, so I changed technique a bit. I hope it's not a distraction.




Oh, now I just know I'll sound like I'm always complaining about something...... but personally, I felt Poseidon's body  felt more "watery" in the way it was drawn before. However, it's not much of a difference after all, and if the author prefers the new version, who am I to complain?  ;D

There's also the concept that gods can change (and hide) their looks at will.  There's the old greek myth about Apollo (under whichever name -- those change too) showing his full glory to one of his lovers, who died at the sight.  Consider the variety of forms Zeus (aka Jupiter aka Yahweh) used to consort with the mothers of his many sons, usually the forms of animals (bulls, swans, doves), but there was that one golden shower that produced Perseus (though I thought that activity was rarely fertile).

And if you think I'm wrongly mixing mythologies (I am an atheist, thank G-D), Pan was declared dead about the same time Yeshua ben Yussef was.  Was that a coincidence?
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

SDGrant on May 11, 2009, 07:53:29 pm
And if you think I'm wrongly mixing mythologies (I am an atheist, thank G-D), Pan was declared dead about the same time Yeshua ben Yussef was.  Was that a coincidence?

20 years ago I pitched a series (it got done, but with a different storyline) that made a big todo about the similarities of Dionysus and Jesus.  Pan and Jesus' "deaths" were roughly concurrent but their similarities aren't that strong.  If there's a Greek Jesus, it's Dionysus.  (I know Balder is considered the Norse Jesus, but that has as much to do with post-Christian contamination as anything, whereas the Dionysus similarities, not to mention Attis and various other characters, predate the Jesus story... to the point where priests later decided the Devil had pre-seeded (pun intended) other cultures with Christ parallels to seduce the naive away from the true faith...)

- Grant

wdg3rd on May 12, 2009, 02:30:36 am
And if you think I'm wrongly mixing mythologies (I am an atheist, thank G-D), Pan was declared dead about the same time Yeshua ben Yussef was.  Was that a coincidence?

20 years ago I pitched a series (it got done, but with a different storyline) that made a big todo about the similarities of Dionysus and Jesus.  Pan and Jesus' "deaths" were roughly concurrent but their similarities aren't that strong.  If there's a Greek Jesus, it's Dionysus.  (I know Balder is considered the Norse Jesus, but that has as much to do with post-Christian contamination as anything, whereas the Dionysus similarities, not to mention Attis and various other characters, predate the Jesus story... to the point where priests later decided the Devil had pre-seeded (pun intended) other cultures with Christ parallels to seduce the naive away from the true faith...)

- Grant

So he pre-seeded the Egyptians with the death and resurrection of Osiris long before the "captivity" of the children of Israel.  And long before the predictions of a Messiah.  Well, at the God level, time is not a factor.  Which is why I prefer the "devil" in Robert Heinlein's Job to any other god I've ever heard of, but I'd prefer that the concept never puked up of imaginary parents in the afterlife.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

SDGrant on May 12, 2009, 10:32:18 am
...but I'd prefer that the concept never puked up of imaginary parents in the afterlife.

I'm... not sure what that means...

But, yes, according to the medievalists, there are two types of pagan myths that seem to replicate the Bible: there are those, like flood myths, that "prove" the truth of the Bible, and there are gods in all sorts of mythologies who are the result of virgin births, who live a time in exile, return to spread a message of redemption to humanity, are ritually murdered and then resurrected from the dead.  Of course, the ritual murder and resurrection of a god is at the core of many pre-Christian mystery cults - and mystery cults were all the rage in the Greco-Roman world (which included Palestine) 2100 years ago...

- Grant

wdg3rd on May 15, 2009, 11:22:27 pm
...but I'd prefer that the concept never puked up of imaginary parents in the afterlife.

I'm... not sure what that means...

But, yes, according to the medievalists, there are two types of pagan myths that seem to replicate the Bible: there are those, like flood myths, that "prove" the truth of the Bible, and there are gods in all sorts of mythologies who are the result of virgin births, who live a time in exile, return to spread a message of redemption to humanity, are ritually murdered and then resurrected from the dead.  Of course, the ritual murder and resurrection of a god is at the core of many pre-Christian mystery cults - and mystery cults were all the rage in the Greco-Roman world (which included Palestine) 2100 years ago...

- Grant

The Christian Mystery cult is still the rage even now, after 18 or so centuries (we're not sure just when the papers were forged).  And the pagan myths don't replicate the bible, the bible subsumed many pagan myths.  Hieroglyphs about the rebirth of Osiris predate the alleged time of Abraham, let alone the three Desert King religions that sprang from him (some would claim LDS was a fourth, mox nix to me).

On occasion backalong, I had an idea (and it might be fun to play with for a better writer than I am) that the Egyptian god Set got sick and tired of being badmouthed in Egypt, and decided to set up shop somewhere else.  So he grabbed the attention of some local peasants with a bit of smoke and mirrors (as in burning bushes, pillars of smoke) and "led them to the Promised Land".  But of course, that's blasphemy and historically that idea would get me burned at the stake or at least hanged -- and depending on the next election (you never know when Nehemiah Scudder will win) -- might happen in the future.

I don't care what imaginary friends anybody has.  Any attempt to inflict their commands upon me is an initiation of force.  The only reason I'm not openly defending myself (physically and violently) at present is that I am badly outnumbered and would prefer to choose my own ground where a proper Polish firing-squad target-rich environment is available.  I'm not the type to blow up or shoot up a church, I want my honor guard to Hell to be armed.

For many years I wanted (and would still prefer) my obituary to read "Missing and Presumed".  I have come to accept that it will be "Shot While Resisting" (especially if some statist/collectivist entity wants me "Missing and Presumed" by a choice of time and place not my own).

Yeah, I've had a couple (call it several) of (high octane, 10%) beers.  Plus, I'm rereading F. Paul Wilson's "Repairman Jack" novels before advancing to the new one.  Probably causes what some mothers would call "an attitude".  But just finished the first bit of Hosts and that would cause an attitude for anybody who didn't piss it's pants and close the book there.  Of course there's the other attitude held by a prominent congressthing from New York who feels that since her husband couldn't defend himself from a thug on a train (by state law, in violation of the Constitution) that nobody else should be allowed the means to defend themselves (by federal law, in violation of the Constitution).  The cunt took the oath to protect the Constitution but was elected on a promise to abolish the Second Amendment.

I cry for my people.  Get me the fuck off of this planet.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

SDGrant on May 15, 2009, 11:46:37 pm
The Christian Mystery cult is still the rage even now, after 18 or so centuries (we're not sure just when the papers were forged).

We're relatively sure.  Mention of Jesus appears in Josephus sometime in the early second century, though there's still some debate about which edition is which, timewise.  The gospels and acts aren't forged, per se.  They're just written, but they're written in an era when a) personal mythology is running rampant throughout the Levant as the Pax Romana makes tolerance of other religions the law of the land and mystery cults start flowing outward from their places of origin, and b) it becomes quite the fad to attach the name of a player from your narrative to the narrative to give it a sheen of reality, like, say, writing a gospel and sticking the name of the Apostle Matthew, or Thomas, or Peter onto it.  I suspect having to cope with this is partially what gave Christianity its obsessive literal-mindedness.

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And the pagan myths don't replicate the bible, the bible subsumed many pagan myths.  Hieroglyphs about the rebirth of Osiris predate the alleged time of Abraham, let alone the three Desert King religions that sprang from him (some would claim LDS was a fourth, mox nix to me).

No, no, no, the Devil did all that.  History could never possibly predate non-existent events populated by non-existent characters.

Quote
On occasion backalong, I had an idea (and it might be fun to play with for a better writer than I am) that the Egyptian god Set got sick and tired of being badmouthed in Egypt, and decided to set up shop somewhere else.  So he grabbed the attention of some local peasants with a bit of smoke and mirrors (as in burning bushes, pillars of smoke) and "led them to the Promised Land".  But of course, that's blasphemy and historically that idea would get me burned at the stake or at least hanged -- and depending on the next election (you never know when Nehemiah Scudder will win) -- might happen in the future.

Well, YVHV is a semitic desert fire god of long standing - basically, he's the hillbilly version of Moloch - while Set is the etymological origin of Satan.

Quote
I don't care what imaginary friends anybody has.  Any attempt to inflict their commands upon me is an initiation of force.  The only reason I'm not openly defending myself (physically and violently) at present is that I am badly outnumbered and would prefer to choose my own ground where a proper Polish firing-squad target-rich environment is available.  I'm not the type to blow up or shoot up a church, I want my honor guard to Hell to be armed.

Well, you know... if I find absolutely no reason to believe in god, I certainly have no reason to believe in Hell...  As far as anyone wanting me to adhere to their religious beliefs, I'm not inclined to rub their faces in my non-belief under most circumstances, but if they want to get militant about it, that's why god invented laughter and middle fingers...

Quote
For many years I wanted (and would still prefer) my obituary to read "Missing and Presumed".  I have come to accept that it will be "Shot While Resisting" (especially if some statist/collectivist entity wants me "Missing and Presumed" by a choice of time and place not my own).

You do realize it'll probably read "Died"?  And if you're really living in the midst of that militant a Christian culture, it'll likely also read "Baptized posthumously."

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I cry for my people.  Get me the frack off of this planet.

In the immortal words of Phil Ochs, I would be in exile now but everywhere's the same...

- Grant