Technomad on October 16, 2008, 12:16:46 am
I would now know not to trust Agamemnon any farther than I could throw him, and that Agamemnon's fatally inept as an intriguer.  A smart Agamemnon would have arranged Ajax's death in such a way that nobody, nobody at all, could blame him for it...and been the loudest weeper at the funeral.  Instead, this idiot kills the guy right in front of Odysseus, who he knows is very smart and clever, and already has reasons (like being drafted) to resent him. 

In Odysseus' sandals, I'd start thinking of ways to eliminate Agamemnon, and as wily as he is, I don't think it'd be too hard.  Most Heroic-Age Greek heroes had all the subtlety of a chainsaw, and goading them into "suicide missions of marginal importance" wouldn't be terribly difficult for a guy as wily as Odysseus is supposed to be.

Rocketman on October 16, 2008, 07:40:18 am
I agree.  And if I were Odysseus I would also assume that as soon as Agamemnon didn't need me any more he would do to me what he just did to Ajax.  That fact that he murdered Ajax right in front of him tells me that Agameemnon doesn't plan on any witnesses to warn Ajax's friends that might want to avenge him and the first to go will be him.  If I were Odysseus I might try to quietly befriend one of the temple priestesses that are currently "servicing" Agameemnon and get her to spy on him to find out what his next move will be.  Odysseus could promise her her freedom in exchange for the information.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 02:20:34 pm by Rocketman »

Technomad on October 16, 2008, 01:58:41 pm
If I were Odysseus I might try to quietly befriend one of the temple priestesses that are currently "servicing" Agameemnon and get her to spy on him to find out what his next move will be.  Odysseus could promise her her freedom in exchange for the information.

Another example of Agamemnon's damnfoolishness.  In the world of this comic, the Greek gods are real...and real gods, no matter where or in what mythology, get very, very, very cranky about people misusing their property or hassling people that they're looking out for.  Considering that there are probably more than enough complaisant slave girls around the camp, Agamemnon'd be quite a bit smarter to treat captured priestesses with respect and either let them go or turn them over to their kin, toute suite.  The Greek gods were touchy at best, and Mere Mortals who annoyed them had short, interesting lives ahead of them, not to mention post-mortem retaliation...look at Sisyphus, who I always thought was amusingly clever.

In one of the spinoff lists from the Evil Overlord list, a list for "Things I Will Do If I Am A Good Ruler," it says that if the god, or gods, of my people are demonstrably real and have taken an interest in my affairs, doing things that I know will piss them off is Right Straight Out.  (This is probably in reference to David and Bathsheba, or some of the other Biblical kings, but could apply here, as well.)

Rocketman on October 16, 2008, 02:19:52 pm
Yep.  I seem to remember an old saying that "To be a successful ruler you have to either be incredibly cruel to your enemies or embarrassingly generous".  ;D

enemyofthestate on October 16, 2008, 03:03:51 pm
In Odysseus' sandals, I'd start thinking of ways to eliminate Agamemnon, and as wily as he is, I don't think it'd be too hard.  Most Heroic-Age Greek heroes had all the subtlety of a chainsaw, and goading them into "suicide missions of marginal importance" wouldn't be terribly difficult for a guy as wily as Odysseus is supposed to be.

According to Homer, Odysseus was a crafty bastard who could hold a grudge.

For example he framed Palamedes, who had unmasked his madness ruse, as a traitor.  Odysseus forced (or convinced, depending on the translation) a Trojan captive to write a letter pretending to be from Palamedes and mentioned a sum of gold as a reward for treachery.  Odysseus killed the prisoner and hid the gold in Palamedes's tent. He then arranged for Agamemnon to find the letter and dropped subtle hints about where the find the gold.  This was evidence enough for the Greeks who stoned Palamedes to death.

Definitely someone you want on your side or safely dead. :-)

Leviathan on October 16, 2008, 10:35:00 pm
And I wouldn't put it past such a person to manage his way out of the afterlife, so "safely dead" might not be possible when the gods and afterlife are real, heh.

Rocketman on October 16, 2008, 11:40:10 pm
Judging from what Agamemnon has done so far, not too many in his army are going to be sorry to see him kick off this mortal coil, and I thnk that no better way of poetic justice if he get it by trying to knock someone off only to get knocked off himself.

Technomad on October 17, 2008, 02:35:17 am
I noticed that Agamemnon's last words were a foreshadowing of what would happen to him...and, judging from this stunt, it couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

Corydon on October 17, 2008, 07:41:55 am
According to Homer, Odysseus was a crafty bastard who could hold a grudge.

For example he framed Palamedes, who had unmasked his madness ruse, as a traitor.  Odysseus forced (or convinced, depending on the translation) a Trojan captive to write a letter pretending to be from Palamedes and mentioned a sum of gold as a reward for treachery.  Odysseus killed the prisoner and hid the gold in Palamedes's tent. He then arranged for Agamemnon to find the letter and dropped subtle hints about where the find the gold.  This was evidence enough for the Greeks who stoned Palamedes to death.

Not "according to Homer", but "according to the post-Homeric tradition": that story doesn't appear in the Iliad or Odyssey.

Odysseus starts developing a bad reputation as time progresses, among the Greek playwrights and (especially) among the Romans.  He's actually a pretty straight shooter in the Iliad; less so in the Odyssey, but even there, not somebody who betrays folks.

enemyofthestate on October 17, 2008, 09:31:16 am
Judging from what Agamemnon has done so far, not too many in his army are going to be sorry to see him kick off this mortal coil, and I thnk that no better way of poetic justice if he get it by trying to knock someone off only to get knocked off himself.
Unless my memory is faulty again (see below ) he was killed by his wife, Clytemnestra, after returning to Greece.

Not "according to Homer", but "according to the post-Homeric tradition": that story doesn't appear in the Iliad or Odyssey.
After checking references instead of memory, it appears you are right.  I stand corrected.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 09:56:53 am by enemyofthestate »

Scott on October 17, 2008, 02:56:26 pm
See, who says a better appreciation of the classics can't be stimulated via comics?  8)

I haven't spoken to Steven about this but I think the reason he has Agamemnon kill Ajax in Odysseus' presence is to make Odysseus an accessory to the crime -- this will bind Odysseus' interests more closely to Agamemnon's. A can rely on O to not only keep his mouth shut, but to cleverly suppress untoward rumors. And if the crime is somehow discovered, Agamemnon, as high king, could better weather the fallout than can Odysseus, who is merely in effect the duke of a far-removed and unimportant province. It also demonstrates how much more A values Odysseus' smarts versus Ajax's brute strength and traditional sense of honor.

SDGrant on May 11, 2009, 09:37:11 pm
See, who says a better appreciation of the classics can't be stimulated via comics?  8)

I haven't spoken to Steven about this but I think the reason he has Agamemnon kill Ajax in Odysseus' presence is to make Odysseus an accessory to the crime -- this will bind Odysseus' interests more closely to Agamemnon's. A can rely on O to not only keep his mouth shut, but to cleverly suppress untoward rumors. And if the crime is somehow discovered, Agamemnon, as high king, could better weather the fallout than can Odysseus, who is merely in effect the duke of a far-removed and unimportant province. It also demonstrates how much more A values Odysseus' smarts versus Ajax's brute strength and traditional sense of honor.

Actually, Agamemnon's high king of the Greeks.  He can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants, and does, without much consideration for what other people think about it.  This is a guy who's dumb enough to drag his mistress home to trot under the nose of his wife, who's already plenty pissed off about Aggie butchering their daughter in order to assure smooth sailing for the Greek ships on their way to pillage Troy.  Odysseus will get the message - better on A's good side than his bad side - but Odysseus also isn't all that interested in power, and killing Agamemnon or plotting his death would involve him in a power struggle that would never end.  But, yeah, it's also Agamemnon's way of saying he thinks Odysseus is more useful than Ajax is.  And, no, that's not how Ajax dies in the Iliad, but I figure that's the cleaned up version...

- Grant

 

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