Rocketman on August 25, 2007, 08:46:56 pm
Apparently, my source was wrong.  Maybe Butler was the only 2 time MOH that he had ever heard of and that's why he thought that.   ;D The USMC Nicaraguan campaign back in the mid 20 was as I remember the original  battlefield testing of one of the best weapons ever used by the USMC.  The 1928 Thompson submachine gun.  The original Chicago typewriter.  The testing of those in a humid tropical climate would less than 20 years later pay off big dividends when the Devil Dogs had to battle the Japanese on those pacific islands.

enemyofthestate on August 27, 2007, 02:02:52 am
The Congressional Medalof Hnor society has a list of double recipients at: http://www.cmohs.org/recipients/double.htm

Steffan on November 10, 2007, 11:24:46 pm
Col. Marrion Michael Morrison indeed!

John Wayne working for walt disney?
Looks like California is one weird place.
Stands to reason, I suppose.... :)

It's pretty much a given that if you stand the continent on end and give it a good shake, anything loose will end up in California.   ;D

I have what may be a silly question:  Why is Colonel Morrison wearing US colonel's insignia?   ???

I admit that I don't know the back story, but I'd think the Bear Flag Republic would want to differentiate themselves from the US... that is, after all, why the Confederate Army adopted different insignia.  A colonel's insignia in the US military is the eagle from the Great Seal, complete with shield, arrows and olive branch.  That would appear to be what Iron Mike is wearing on his collar. 
Is that a real poncho?  I mean, is that a Mexican poncho, or is that a Sears poncho?

-- Frank Zappa

Rocketman on November 11, 2007, 09:54:12 pm
You know Steffan, that is an extremely good question.   I would theorize that prior to the incident at the alamo that all insignia was from originally the U.S. military and when Texas and California left and formed their own nations that since the ranks had already been established thay found no compelling reason to change them.   ;D

Mr. Mxyzptlk on November 12, 2007, 06:56:30 pm
I have what may be a silly question:  Why is Colonel Morrison wearing US colonel's insignia?

Well, the system of ranks for both the US Navy and Army were almost directly copied from the Brits.  It was an example of "it works, so why muck with it".  Likely keeping the rank structure was one of convience.  A compleate reworking would confuse the troops who went with the new country.  Creating and then having the troops learn the new rank structure, especialy if the new country is expecting trouble from the new neighbors is pretty far down on the list.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm...

Scott on November 12, 2007, 11:03:47 pm
In this history, neither Texas nor California were ever part of the United States, although most of them did come from there.

We decided to have the California's Marine insignia and uniforms closely match the U.S. versions mainly so that readers would more readily recognize them.


Steffan on November 17, 2007, 12:30:52 am
In this history, neither Texas nor California were ever part of the United States, although most of them did come from there.

We decided to have the California's Marine insignia and uniforms closely match the U.S. versions mainly so that readers would more readily recognize them.


Makes sense.   :)

Just for grins and giggles, though, I went looking at wiki for a comparison chart... and it turns out that most of NATO's armies use insignia for colonel's rank that isn't all that different from the Confederate Army's three stars. 

Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO_Armies_Officers if you're curious.  The NATO code is OF-5.
Is that a real poncho?  I mean, is that a Mexican poncho, or is that a Sears poncho?

-- Frank Zappa

archy on November 20, 2007, 10:45:00 am
In this history, neither Texas nor California were ever part of the United States, although most of them did come from there.

We decided to have the California's Marine insignia and uniforms closely match the U.S. versions mainly so that readers would more readily recognize them.



Reasonable enough. Even the Marines of the Republic of Texas, circa 1836, used former U.S. Marine uniforms that had been surplussed out, and sources indicate that much of the leadership of the Texas Marines was recruited from former U.S. Marine officers and NCOs who had emigrated to the new Texas Republic. See this and the two preceeding entries of Texas Marine uniforms to get some idea of how much influence the US Marines had on their Texas cousins: http://www.texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org/republic/marshall/plate24.htm




MARINE CORPS
Sergeant
Fatigues
 
This is another of the United States Marine Corps surplus uniforms used by the Republic of Texas, according to Hefter. Both he and Marine Corps artist Colonel Charles Waterhouse show the light blue pants with the dark blue jacket for this time frame, about 1835 to 1842. Smith-Christmas, however, is of the opinion the trousers should be gray with a buff stripe for a sergeant. The inventories suggest that both types of trousers may have been worn by the Texas marines. Nor is it unreasonable to assume that the Texians may have done some alterations in style as might have suited their desire for some difference between their uniforms and those of the U.S. Marines.

The sergeant holds one of the many Patterson colt revolvers issued by the Texas Navy.

Behind is the Hawkins flag.
 
Ah'm just a lowly salesman for the Deef Smith Greeting Card Company....

archy on November 20, 2007, 10:55:13 am

The character referred to mistakenly as "John Wayne" is Marion Michael Morrison, known as "Mike" to his friends, and a career Marine officer. Never set foot on a sound stage except as a visitor.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.



Though it is interesting to note that *our* Marion Michael Morrison [ actually born Marion Robert Morrison in Winterset, Iowa] applied to the U.S. Naval Academy, but was not accepted. He instead attended the University of Southern California (USC), majoring in pre-law. He was a member of the Trojan Knights and ROTC and joined the Sigma Chi fraternity. Wayne also played on the USC football team under legendary coach Howard Jones. An injury curtailed his athletic career, Wayne later noted he was too terrified of Jones' reaction to reveal the actual cause of his injury, which was bodysurfing at the “Wedge” at the tip of the Balboa Peninsula in Newport Beach. He lost his athletic scholarship and without funds had to leave the University, reportedly stowing away in a ship bound for Hawaii, following which upon his return to California he found acting work in Hollywood.

It looks like in the RT world Mike got his commission, and made his career in the Marines instead of the *Wet Navy.* Or maybe he got that Naval Academy commission, but for the Texas Navy Academy at Galveston instead of the one at Annapolis.


Ah'm just a lowly salesman for the Deef Smith Greeting Card Company....

Scott on November 20, 2007, 12:39:53 pm
Morrison got his commission in the Republic of California Marines, not the Federated States of Texas Marines. I don't even know if there is a Federated States of Texas Marines. I imagine FST would have a Navy, to protect its cost and shipping.

Steffan on November 20, 2007, 11:49:59 pm
I'd expect a Coast Guard or Naval Militia.  Not much is illegal and they don't fortify their southern  border, so it's doubtful they'd have to worry about smugglers.  Pirates, OTOH, could be a problem.... but a graphic example or two would minimize the problem.   8)

One other thing about the illustrious Mr. Morrison and his football career:  ISTR reading some gossip concerning Clara Bow and the USC varsity football team.  There's no telling, of course, if that gossip has any truth to it....   :o
Is that a real poncho?  I mean, is that a Mexican poncho, or is that a Sears poncho?

-- Frank Zappa

archy on November 27, 2007, 03:17:57 pm
Quote

One other thing about the illustrious Mr. Morrison and his football career:  ISTR reading some gossip concerning Clara Bow and the USC varsity football team.  There's no telling, of course, if that gossip has any truth to it....   :o

First reported in Kenneth Anger's tell-all book Hollywood Babylon, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Babylon probably based on a 1931 report in the California Coast Reporter tell-all series on her, which just happened to take place following a lengthy and lurid trial that earned her both several enemies and multiple volumes of court testimony about her character.

It is probably factual that the team repeatedly visited her at her estate, mostly after *home* games- around the 1927 season when Mike Morrison was sidelined with his injury- she had followed the college team for at least a year previously, and that was in a day when college football was a MUCH bigger deal- there was no *professional* football league team in the LA area then, and that was also the year such stalwarts of the game as the Chicago Bears were founded, transformed from company-sponsored league teams.

But I wasn't there and don't know anyone who could say yay or nay firsthand. The best info can probably be found here: http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/b/Clara%20Bow/clara_bow.htm
Ah'm just a lowly salesman for the Deef Smith Greeting Card Company....

Steffan on December 18, 2007, 12:48:53 am
In this history, neither Texas nor California were ever part of the United States, although most of them did come from there.

We decided to have the California's Marine insignia and uniforms closely match the U.S. versions mainly so that readers would more readily recognize them.



Reasonable enough. Even the Marines of the Republic of Texas, circa 1836, used former U.S. Marine uniforms that had been surplussed out, and sources indicate that much of the leadership of the Texas Marines was recruited from former U.S. Marine officers and NCOs who had emigrated to the new Texas Republic.


Ok... and as it turns out, colonels in US service were wearing the eagle as early as 1829.... and it was formalized in 1832. 

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/armyorank/blcolonel.htm has it:

Quote
1. The method of identifying Colonels was initially established by General Washington on July 23, 1775 when he stated: "…the field officers may have red or pink colored cockades in their hats, …". Although there is evidence that colonels wore the eagle as rank insignia in 1829 when they transferred the gold or gilt eagles that decorated their hat cockades to their collars. In 1832, gold eagles were authorized for infantry colonels because they were placed on silver epaulettes and silver eagles to be placed on gold epaulettes were authorized for all other colonels.

2. In 1851, the silver epaulettes for infantry was abolished and all epaulettes became gold. As a result, all colonel insignia of grade became silver. The 1851 regulation included illustrations which show the embroidered eagle on the shoulder strap faced the arrows while the eagle worn on the epaulettes faced the olive branch. Apparently due to the lack of specifications, the direction of the eagle’s head depended upon the manufacturer.

So Texas in 1836 and California in 1848 were populated and liberated by people to whom eagle=colonel.  It could work.... 8)
Is that a real poncho?  I mean, is that a Mexican poncho, or is that a Sears poncho?

-- Frank Zappa

 

anything