wdg3rd on March 09, 2008, 03:06:57 am
While I can't make out the exact circumstances of the upper two panels, the lower ones seem to both be artistic creations.  (Admittedly stretching the definition of "artistic" a bit in the case of the staged flag-raising atop Mount Suribachi).
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Leviathan on March 09, 2008, 09:45:27 pm
You'd think in a world with those timepeeper devices and other time travel creations, there wouldn't so much be history classes as history object lessons.  "And here we have video assays of about 10BC to 40AD.  As you can see, we're having trouble narrowing down whether any of these thousands of crucifixions are religoiusly significant.  The Romans crucified so many people, you see?  It's like trying to find a needle in a stack of needles.  And here is the tyrannical organization known as the Uhn.  It supported worldwide tyranny and oppression for decades until the collapse of the first North American Association, as you can see in the following images where their storm-troopers are attacking the village militias and practicing hydraulic despotism by distributing food only to the subservient populations.  Here are their herbicide sprayings, that prevented adequate crop production [note: drug spraying, look up the side-effects] in the local regions, to ensure the effectiveness of their food redistribution programs..."

I wonder how close to reality I am with that UN observation...  :'(

enemyofthestate on March 11, 2008, 11:16:44 pm
Maybe they're all being used by law enforcement :-)

A device that could record events in the past would be a terrific tool for the LEO's.  They'd arrive at a crime scene and scan thru the past until they locate the event they're interested in.  Then record events and backtrack as necessary to identify the perpetrator. 

When you consider that the "past" is only a fraction of a second ago there is considerable potential for plain old surveillance too.

Rocketman on March 12, 2008, 06:49:37 pm
It would also cut the other way too.  Imagine a robber of say a grocery store that could go back in time and see the store manager put the money in the safe for the night, carefully writing down the combination of the safe.   ;D

enemyofthestate on March 13, 2008, 01:07:38 am
Good point.  I think it further illustrates that a time viewing/travelling technology could have an enormous impact on privacy and thru that individual freedom.

Leviathan on March 13, 2008, 12:41:01 pm
*snerk* Richard Nixon is tha image for "violent crime was completely out of control", heh.  I would have to say, putting a politician up as a representation of violent crime is fairly appropriate, but just a tad funny to see.

Personally, the only constitutional amendment that could probably cure all this is "All government is disbanded within the range of this constitution.  Thank you very much and have a nice day."  The ills that people attribute to any current administration are really the effect of government being government.  There is nothing else that can happen when any group is granted involuntary taxation and authorization to use coercive force.

As far as individual freedoms, I'd use the same basic mechanism for keeping somebody out of personal affairs with or without time travel.  Basically, you better be damned certain I've harmed you or someone you represent before prying, else you're paying for a new mansion or yacht with every belonging you got.  And government can take a flying leap back into the shitpit it crawled out of with regards to even having access to such technologies.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 12:44:21 pm by Leviathan »

enemyofthestate on March 14, 2008, 02:53:49 am
It would be interesting to watch the lawyers try to enforce a judgement on a defendant who may not even be born yet.

Come to think of it, if time peeping on folks who have done nothing wrong is a"crime" then what does that make the kids in this story?  It's pretty plain they sent back the "borrowed" time peeper intending to spy on someones great aunt and a fellow named "Horatious".  It's a little like the question of how many years have to pass before it is OK to dig up your grave and put your body on display in some museum.

wdg3rd on March 15, 2008, 03:04:33 pm
Maybe they're all being used by law enforcement :-)

A device that could record events in the past would be a terrific tool for the LEO's.  They'd arrive at a crime scene and scan thru the past until they locate the event they're interested in.  Then record events and backtrack as necessary to identify the perpetrator. 

When you consider that the "past" is only a fraction of a second ago there is considerable potential for plain old surveillance too.

There is a story that makes that exact point, but at the moment I can not recall the author or title.  It was several decades back.  Unfortunately my best eidetic rememberer of everything ever published in a science fiction magazine is pissed off at La Esposa so that resource is unavailable.  It may have been Asimov.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

wdg3rd on March 15, 2008, 03:14:28 pm
*snerk* Richard Nixon is tha image for "violent crime was completely out of control", heh.  I would have to say, putting a politician up as a representation of violent crime is fairly appropriate, but just a tad funny to see.

Considering how many people Nixon ordered killed in Southeast Asia (not that he often specified particular individuals) and the side effects of the War on (some) Drugs he launched into high gear, I'll consider him a suitable icon for violent crime.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Leviathan on March 16, 2008, 07:57:10 am
It would be interesting to watch the lawyers try to enforce a judgement on a defendant who may not even be born yet.

If you don't want to wait three centuries for a judgement?  Sell the rights to the settlement to some company that intends to be around for awhile.  If it doesn't change future history to have the suit on file, the company/trust you set up will eventually bring suit.  Meanwhile, 'cause you sold the suit it's still worth something to you now.  "We're suing you for the original crime eight centuries ago, plus the interest on the principal accrued in the meantime.  By our calculations, you owe us just shy of the GNP of Eouth-East Asia."

Come to think of it, if time peeping on folks who have done nothing wrong is a"crime" then what does that make the kids in this story?  It's pretty plain they sent back the "borrowed" time peeper intending to spy on someones great aunt and a fellow named "Horatious".  It's a little like the question of how many years have to pass before it is OK to dig up your grave and put your body on display in some museum.

Well, you do have to realize that joyriding is a crime *now* as well.  Doesn't stop it from happening, heh.

They actually might've committed two crimes by most definitions.  The first was stealing the peeper, the second was spying on their ancestors.

Considering how many people Nixon ordered killed in Southeast Asia (not that he often specified particular individuals) and the side effects of the War on (some) Drugs he launched into high gear, I'll consider him a suitable icon for violent crime.

Well, it's just most people don't associate politicians with the violence they instigate.  In fact, most of the objections I get arguing anarcho-capitalist ideology with people amount to "but who'll protect me from violence if politicians aren't doing it??!?!1/1!?1/?"  It's kind of a "Wow!" combined with "Bwaahahahahahaha!" moment to see the association between violence and politics happen, though.

Oh, and I'll just mention here...  Star light star bright, first star I see tonight.  I wish I may, I wish I might, have this wish I wish tonight.  *crosses fingers, lights a few wiccan candles, sacrifices a goat* Please oh please I wish that ammendment would somehow happen!  It would be like every hope and dream I've had for the last five years coming true all in one day if it did!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 08:03:05 am by Leviathan »

Butte Bill on March 26, 2008, 10:39:08 pm
Top left panel contains images from 1910s - WWI; top right panel contains images from 1920s - prohibition?; bottom left 1930s - King Kong being shot down from Empire State Building; and bottom right from 1940's - WWII.
My favorite panel is bottom right on p39 - Cheny being led away in chains.  Hope its not just a movie shot...

Technomad on June 05, 2008, 11:29:32 pm
Maybe they're all being used by law enforcement :-)

A device that could record events in the past would be a terrific tool for the LEO's.  They'd arrive at a crime scene and scan thru the past until they locate the event they're interested in.  Then record events and backtrack as necessary to identify the perpetrator. 

When you consider that the "past" is only a fraction of a second ago there is considerable potential for plain old surveillance too.

There is a story that makes that exact point, but at the moment I can not recall the author or title.  It was several decades back.  Unfortunately my best eidetic rememberer of everything ever published in a science fiction magazine is pissed off at La Esposa so that resource is unavailable.  It may have been Asimov.

"The Dead Past" by Isaac Asimov.  It's in his collection Earth Is Room Enough.