mariospants on October 06, 2017, 08:42:44 pm
Has anybody else been watching the new Star Trek: Discovery? It's not a bad series, I recommend it even if you're not a Star Trek fan...

Right about Episode 3, the show actually "begins"... that is, the protagonist and the series' name sake, the NCC Discovery meet for the first time.

The thing is, I'm seeing SERIOUS similarities in this show to Quantum Vibe! Like, some serious influences... much like we have the "homage spotter" threads here on this forum, we literally could start one for Star Trek: Discovery and Quantum Vibe.

We can start with the most obvious: Michael Burnham (stated on the show as female) IS Nicole Oresme. There's just no two ways about it; if I were to cast someone in the role of Nicole Oresme in a movie or TV show, I could hardly do a better job. Starting in Episode 3, Sonequa Martin-Green looks JUST like Nicole Oresme.

Well, just judge for yourself:
Nicole Oresme:

Michael Burnham


Now, like Nicole, Michael has some very similar abilities and personality traits... and this is just in the first three episodes:
  • super-capable
  • a great fighter
  • exasperated with authority and those around her
  • quick witted and quick on her feet
  • incredibly capable astrophysicist

Also, Nicole and Michael have:
  • escaped near death by jetting through space without a craft or full spacesuit
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
  • been enlisted to work on a new, quantum-based method of traveling instantly to anywhere

Well, that's my list for now, perhaps others can add to this? I'll be interested to see what other similarities to Quantum Vibe we'll see in coming episodes of Star Trek: Discovery...
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 09:47:08 pm by mariospants »

Scott on October 09, 2017, 09:56:22 am
Has anybody else been watching the new Star Trek: Discovery? It's not a bad series, I recommend it even if you're not a Star Trek fan...

Right about Episode 3, the show actually "begins"... that is, the protagonist and the series' name sake, the NCC Discovery meet for the first time.

The thing is, I'm seeing SERIOUS similarities in this show to Quantum Vibe! Like, some serious influences... much like we have the "homage spotter" threads here on this forum, we literally could start one for Star Trek: Discovery and Quantum Vibe.

We can start with the most obvious: Michael Burnham (stated on the show as female) IS Nicole Oresme. There's just no two ways about it; if I were to cast someone in the role of Nicole Oresme in a movie or TV show, I could hardly do a better job. Starting in Episode 3, Sonequa Martin-Green looks JUST like Nicole Oresme.

Well, just judge for yourself:
Nicole Oresme:

Michael Burnham


Now, like Nicole, Michael has some very similar abilities and personality traits... and this is just in the first three episodes:
  • super-capable
  • a great fighter
  • exasperated with authority and those around her
  • quick witted and quick on her feet
  • incredibly capable astrophysicist

Also, Nicole and Michael have:
  • escaped near death by jetting through space without a craft or full spacesuit
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
  • been enlisted to work on a new, quantum-based method of traveling instantly to anywhere

Well, that's my list for now, perhaps others can add to this? I'll be interested to see what other similarities to Quantum Vibe we'll see in coming episodes of Star Trek: Discovery...

I noticed all that, too. I'm starting to wonder if I should consult with an IP attorney.

--Scott

JanessaVR on October 09, 2017, 12:36:58 pm
I noticed all that, too. I'm starting to wonder if I should consult with an IP attorney.

--Scott
Go for it.  Me, I've been avoiding Star Trek STD - I have less than no interest in it.
Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

jmsr7 on October 09, 2017, 03:12:10 pm
I noticed all that, too. I'm starting to wonder if I should consult with an IP attorney.

--Scott
Go for it.  Me, I've been avoiding Star Trek STD - I have less than no interest in it.

Eh, i'm gonna have to disagree with you guys as i don't see the similarity.  Their back stories are pretty different as are their personalities, no to mention the settings.  If you are going off of looks then i don't see it either.  Unless you are saying that all skinny short haired black women look the same (and nicole's not even black is she? - doesn't she have the genes from like a dozen different people?).

Anyway, i can point out visual similarities that can get creators into trouble.  I'm no Lionel P. Hutz: law-talkin' guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFtbd_pd9rY)  but here are some examples of visual images that have gotten Mechwarrior sued by Robotech:

Archer vs Spartan and Warhammer vs Tomahawk (https://www.pcgamesn.com/sites/default/files/BattleTech%20lawsuit%20Warhammer%20Tomahawk.png)

Marauder vs Officer's Pod and Phoenix Hawk vs Super Valkyrie (http://cfw.sarna.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Marauder-PHawk-via-unitedstatescourtsDOTorg-625x617.jpg)

...and my favourite lovely fun Rifleman vs the Destroid Defender (http://cfw.sarna.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Rifleman-via-unitedstatescourtsDOTorg-625x380.jpg)

Basically, if a layman could be expected to see them as being the same then you have a case.  I don't think there is, starting with the facial tattoos.

jmsr

edit: dammit, broken links.  Here is a link to a webpage with those images and a few more which i don't think should have been included - http://www.sarna.net/news/harmony-gold-is-at-it-again/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 03:14:13 pm by jmsr7 »

Skull the Troll on October 09, 2017, 03:54:45 pm


UncleRice on October 10, 2017, 09:19:08 am
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
Michael signed up, by her own free will, to Starfleet's rules, then violated those rules by attacking her superior officer and trying to take control of the ship owned by starfleet. I would count that as a pretty fair reason to end up in jail. Nicole ended up in jail because a banned material planted on her by a cop. There is no similarity here.
Stupid criminals put on a mask and rob people with a gun.
Smart criminals put on a suit, call themselves politicians, and rob people with writ of law.

mariospants on October 10, 2017, 01:04:02 pm
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
Michael signed up, by her own free will, to Starfleet's rules, then violated those rules by attacking her superior officer and trying to take control of the ship owned by starfleet. I would count that as a pretty fair reason to end up in jail. Nicole ended up in jail because a banned material planted on her by a cop. There is no similarity here.
Only because you wrote it your own way... Michael knowingly sacrificed her career and her freedom in order to protect and save not only her crewmates but also to avert outright warfare in the entire Star Trek universe/galaxy. Without that information, your assessment is not complete, and the series would have no basis in continuing to see Michael as a "hero".

I am not saying that Nicole and Michael had similar reasons for being in jail, only that the reasons for the incarceration - according to the audience's perspective - are unfair. I can add that the same happened to Eithne, as a matter of fact...

jmsr7 on October 10, 2017, 02:03:37 pm
Ya know, i'm a bit unclear on just WHY Michael Burnham is accused of having started the war.  I get why she's in jail (attempted mutiny) but why does everyone say "you started this war?"

Incidentally, did you notice at her trial (or sentencing) hearing she couldn't see who was sentencing her?  Facing your accusers is a part of our democracy right now, nevermind the freakin' FEDERATION.  This is one of many things that make this series "not Star Trek."

mariospants on October 11, 2017, 12:00:27 am
Ya know, i'm a bit unclear on just WHY Michael Burnham is accused of having started the war.  I get why she's in jail (attempted mutiny) but why does everyone say "you started this war?"

Incidentally, did you notice at her trial (or sentencing) hearing she couldn't see who was sentencing her?  Facing your accusers is a part of our democracy right now, nevermind the freakin' FEDERATION.  This is one of many things that make this series "not Star Trek."

Good points, that bothered me, too. I guess what people were pissed off about was that she had put the Captain out of commission for several minutes during the most tense phase of "negotiations" and thereby became the ultimate "if only".

As for the hidden accuser? That's probably going to be revealed at a later date, and the darkness was just (again) for the audience's benefit, not for Michael... well, I'm conjecturing on that part...

macnut on October 13, 2017, 09:26:18 am
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
Michael signed up, by her own free will, to Starfleet's rules, then violated those rules by attacking her superior officer and trying to take control of the ship owned by starfleet. I would count that as a pretty fair reason to end up in jail. Nicole ended up in jail because a banned material planted on her by a cop. There is no similarity here.

I have to agree with UncleRice here. If you attack your ship's captain and take over the ship, you'd better be able to prove it was because your captain was not in their right mind. However, in this case the captain was in her right mind, just making decisions her first officer did not agree with. Mutiny was definitely the wrong action in that case, and Michael paid the price for her bad decision. And because she committed said mutiny at a critical time in the confrontation with the Klingons, she is also being held responsible for the war (that part's unfair, but if she hadn't taken her captain out of commission at that time, she wouldn't have taken the blame).
The MacNut, Creator of the superhero space opera webcomic The Vanguard

mariospants on October 13, 2017, 04:48:44 pm
  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
Michael signed up, by her own free will, to Starfleet's rules, then violated those rules by attacking her superior officer and trying to take control of the ship owned by starfleet. I would count that as a pretty fair reason to end up in jail. Nicole ended up in jail because a banned material planted on her by a cop. There is no similarity here.

I have to agree with UncleRice here. If you attack your ship's captain and take over the ship, you'd better be able to prove it was because your captain was not in their right mind. However, in this case the captain was in her right mind, just making decisions her first officer did not agree with. Mutiny was definitely the wrong action in that case, and Michael paid the price for her bad decision. And because she committed said mutiny at a critical time in the confrontation with the Klingons, she is also being held responsible for the war (that part's unfair, but if she hadn't taken her captain out of commission at that time, she wouldn't have taken the blame).

Her bad actions are not in dispute, I agree with you both, obviously on this point. What I'm trying to show is that - according to the audience's point of view - she was only doing what she though was right, otherwise, she is no hero, but a villain...

DrakBibliophile on October 13, 2017, 09:31:47 pm
according to the audience's point of view

I'd prefer to say that the script-writer wanted the audience to "get that message".

I won't have gotten that message.  :(

  • been thrown in jail for reasons that are unfair
Michael signed up, by her own free will, to Starfleet's rules, then violated those rules by attacking her superior officer and trying to take control of the ship owned by starfleet. I would count that as a pretty fair reason to end up in jail. Nicole ended up in jail because a banned material planted on her by a cop. There is no similarity here.

I have to agree with UncleRice here. If you attack your ship's captain and take over the ship, you'd better be able to prove it was because your captain was not in their right mind. However, in this case the captain was in her right mind, just making decisions her first officer did not agree with. Mutiny was definitely the wrong action in that case, and Michael paid the price for her bad decision. And because she committed said mutiny at a critical time in the confrontation with the Klingons, she is also being held responsible for the war (that part's unfair, but if she hadn't taken her captain out of commission at that time, she wouldn't have taken the blame).

Her bad actions are not in dispute, I agree with you both, obviously on this point. What I'm trying to show is that - according to the audience's point of view - she was only doing what she though was right, otherwise, she is no hero, but a villain...
*
Drak Bibliophile (The Book Loving Dragon)
*
Sometimes the Dragon Wins!!
*

UncleRice on October 13, 2017, 11:08:18 pm
One of the reviews pointed out that Michael advised her captain that killing the main bad guy Klingon would make him a martyr. That's why she and the captain went to the Klingon ship to capture him alive. When this plan went poorly, Michael set phasers to kill unnecessarily and burned a hole in him, creating the martyr they were trying to avoid creating. If you subscribe to Martyr theory, then yeah, she bears a significant responsibility for creating the war, but from a practicality standpoint, the war was inevitable. On one side you have a Fascist Federation of Planets, and on the other side, you have Klingon Purists. War was pretty much inevitable. Blaming Michael for the war was convenient, as she committed a serious crime, but sometimes war is inescapable.
Stupid criminals put on a mask and rob people with a gun.
Smart criminals put on a suit, call themselves politicians, and rob people with writ of law.

Drolekirts on October 17, 2017, 01:32:15 am
Her bad actions are not in dispute, I agree with you both, obviously on this point. What I'm trying to show is that - according to the audience's point of view - she was only doing what she though was right, otherwise, she is no hero, but a villain...

Every villain is the hero of their own story...Indeed, it's but a matter of perspective.
"If you only knew the POWER of the Dark Side..!"

mariospants on October 17, 2017, 08:26:11 am
I'm beginning to wonder what, exactly, IS the point of Michael's character in ST:D... she's supposed to be the protagonist, but she's often so quixotically wrong and right within a single episode! Are they trying to emphasize a struggle between her human origins and Vulcan upbringing? It doesn't help that she is surrounded by a multitude of really unlikeable, dislikable, and roguish characters who are of questionable moral and ethical nature...

... it's a struggle that would be familiar to Ethne, who - as part of a pacifist league - felt completely confused by her actions of killing in self-defence... some of Michael's haunted and blank stares remind me of the times that Ethne exhibited the same feelings...

My reasoning for the thread, here, ultimately boils down to: "if Quantum Vibe were to become a movie or TV show, people would complain that he copied Michael, from ST:D"