jmsr7 on September 22, 2017, 11:28:25 pm
They ARE only about a thousand years old.  I wonder what their scientists have to say about that?

DrakBibliophile on September 23, 2017, 04:30:19 pm
If the "Gamers" can adjust physics enough to allow Warp Drive & Sub-Space Communications to work, they might be able to "adjust" time for that galaxy.

From outside this galaxy, the inhabitants are only a thousand years old but inside this galaxy the time may be much longer.

They ARE only about a thousand years old.  I wonder what their scientists have to say about that?
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Drak Bibliophile (The Book Loving Dragon)
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Sometimes the Dragon Wins!!
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wdg3rd on September 23, 2017, 08:59:01 pm
Synthetic species, synthetic culture, synthetic history, synthetic anthro oops sapientology, synthetic paleontology.  Like some folks say God or Satan did to fool us into mistaken belief that the universe wasn't created in 4004 BC.
Ward Griffiths        wdg3rd@aol.com

Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.  --  Denis Diderot

Apollo-Soyuz on September 24, 2017, 04:58:31 pm
...according to Pastafarianism, all evidence for evolution was planted by the Flying Spaghetti Monster in an effort to test the faith of Pastafarians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster#Creation

Synthetic species, synthetic culture, synthetic history, synthetic anthro oops sapientology, synthetic paleontology.  Like some folks say God or Satan did to fool us into mistaken belief that the universe wasn't created in 4004 BC.

jmsr7 on September 24, 2017, 07:55:17 pm
Synthetic species, synthetic culture, synthetic history, synthetic anthro oops sapientology, synthetic paleontology.  Like some folks say God or Satan did to fool us into mistaken belief that the universe wasn't created in 4004 BC.

Hm. Well, it's unclear what level of detail they are capable of.  It could be that adjusting the physical constants of the universe and increasing the rate of time in their local region (which would still be pretty damn obvious to any scientist in there) are "much easier" than the level of detail forging a false history (culture, paleontology, genetics, everything) would require of them.  I would expect that any persons that would find the cultural details available in star trek (or even all TV since 1950) impressive - would be overwhelmed by the details you'd have to 'make up' to forge in this galaxy.

Still, who knows.  Maybe they are advance in technology but crippled in imagination.  I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story.

Sean Roach on September 24, 2017, 10:31:06 pm
Synthetic species, synthetic culture, synthetic history, synthetic anthro oops sapientology, synthetic paleontology.  Like some folks say God or Satan did to fool us into mistaken belief that the universe wasn't created in 4004 BC.

Hm. Well, it's unclear what level of detail they are capable of.  It could be that adjusting the physical constants of the universe and increasing the rate of time in their local region (which would still be pretty damn obvious to any scientist in there) are "much easier" than the level of detail forging a false history (culture, paleontology, genetics, everything) would require of them.  I would expect that any persons that would find the cultural details available in star trek (or even all TV since 1950) impressive - would be overwhelmed by the details you'd have to 'make up' to forge in this galaxy.

Still, who knows.  Maybe they are advance in technology but crippled in imagination.  I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story.

The Borg weren't a TOS threat, so these guys kept up with ST, at least into TNG.
They probably have a humpback whale in there, somewhere. Maybe a V-GER. Likely a singular, stable, wormhole bridging two sides of the galaxy, where they like to hang out and prophesy.

Skull the Troll on September 26, 2017, 12:50:44 pm
Synthetic species, synthetic culture, synthetic history, synthetic anthro oops sapientology, synthetic paleontology.  Like some folks say God or Satan did to fool us into mistaken belief that the universe wasn't created in 4004 BC.

Hm. Well, it's unclear what level of detail they are capable of.  It could be that adjusting the physical constants of the universe and increasing the rate of time in their local region (which would still be pretty damn obvious to any scientist in there) are "much easier" than the level of detail forging a false history (culture, paleontology, genetics, everything) would require of them.  I would expect that any persons that would find the cultural details available in star trek (or even all TV since 1950) impressive - would be overwhelmed by the details you'd have to 'make up' to forge in this galaxy.

Still, who knows.  Maybe they are advance in technology but crippled in imagination.  I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story.

They dont really have to create the details of the past - they raised these beings up from lesser lifeforms. History was told to the first ones just like its told to all of us. Very few of us rely on primary source materials, we just accept what we were taught. As others have said in this thread its not hard to find modern real world people that believe the world is 6000 years old. They could just set up a system where the first ones are living in a time of  "industrial revolution" not knowing that those that came before them were unadvanced, they never actually lived at all. The gamers provide the inspiration for tech that advances the species in the direction they want and society creates itself mostly along the lines the games desire. It kind of explains some of the differences we've seen between actual Trek and this Galaxy.

customdesigned on September 26, 2017, 10:34:11 pm

As others have said in this thread its not hard to find modern real world people that believe the world is 6000 years old.


There is probably a frame of reference somewhere where our earth *is* 6000 years old.  From the only frame of reference that is observable everywhere (the Cosmic Microwave Background), the universe is about 5˝ days old, and our earth about 4˝ (if I did the exponential expansion properly).


jmsr7 on September 27, 2017, 07:27:38 pm

They dont really have to create the details of the past - they raised these beings up from lesser lifeforms. History was told to the first ones just like its told to all of us. Very few of us rely on primary source materials, we just accept what we were taught. As others have said in this thread its not hard to find modern real world people that believe the world is 6000 years old. They could just set up a system where the first ones are living in a time of  "industrial revolution" not knowing that those that came before them were unadvanced, they never actually lived at all. The gamers provide the inspiration for tech that advances the species in the direction they want and society creates itself mostly along the lines the games desire. It kind of explains some of the differences we've seen between actual Trek and this Galaxy.

Hm, no, gonna have to disagree with you here.  These are large civilizations, with vast numbers of people. Some will be scientists.  You have to have science to invent the stuff they have.

They are going to have science and it will have many, many sub-disciplines with many,many people involved in them.  Some of these will have historical focuses and any versions of history, archaeology and paleontology that they have will show what happened in the past - evidence doesn't just disappear ya know.  The historical record or "what is in the ground" as paleontologists put it will make it blindingly obvious that a whole bunch of civilizations and a whole bunch of species appeared within a few decades of each other at many planets throughout this galaxy a thousand years ago.

Genetics will make it even more obvious that someone tinkered with the genes of the species of those same civilizations at that time.  About as obvious as someone messing with the text of a book.  Genetic material has a known mutation rate and is a balance between its maximum rate (the mutation rate) and reduced by the error correcting machinery (I'm not counting natural selection because i'm assuming you are looking at nonfunctional genetic material in which mutations can accumulate because they don't matter and therefore aren't cut out by natural selection).  This is where you can get a genetic 'clock.'   About a thousand years ago, their scientists will be able to see that these species underwent vastly accelerated rates of evolution akin to the 'hopeful monster' hypothesis of genetics. 

The fact that their various scientists will never have observed 'hopeful monsters' appearing should make them suspicious that some genetic engineering went on, and the temporal coincidence on all these worlds (1000years is less than an eyeblink in geological timescales) points directly to intelligent interstellar interference. 

Further, the gluteans are supposed to be a combination of three different species.  This also NEVER HAPPENS.  The tree of life only diverges, it doesn't reconverge (incidentally, this is one of the most laughable of the creationist misunderstandings of evolution - no one but them argue that a crocoduck or a star-fish should exist - they don't even understand evolution enough to argue against it). 

What this all means is that these civilizations should 1)suspect that someone created them a thousand years ago, 2)all be aware of it, and 3)may have some foundational cultural myths or memes or religions (backed up by science no less) to that effect.  Oh, and the buttheads may consider themselves extra-special because of it.

Not that this would have any particular day-to-day effect on the activities of daily living.  That would go on as normal, this is just background.  Civilization shaping background, but background nonetheless.  Still gotta dress up and go to work ya know.

jmsr

PS in case you're interested:

link to popular christian creationist Kirk Cameron claiming croco-ducks should exist if evolution was true (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocoduck)

link to popular islamic creationist Harun Yahya claiming star-fish should exist should exist if evolution was true (http://m.harunyahya.com/tr/Buku/1023/Wonders-of-Allah%E2%80%99s-Creation/chapter/938/Fossils-That-Evolutionists-Just-cant-Seem-to-Find-)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 07:35:00 pm by jmsr7 »

Skull the Troll on September 27, 2017, 08:16:48 pm
It was specifically stated that the gamers created these people and gave them their tech by uplifting lower lifeforms. The neckbeard created the Glueteans.

Coyoty on September 28, 2017, 03:50:58 am
The tree of life only diverges, it doesn't reconverge

Except for mitochondria, and lichen, and chimera, and slime molds, and junk DNA that's actually from invasive viruses (as with corn and human genomes), and bacteria that assimilate the DNA of other strains, and photosynthesizing animals like the emerald sea slug, and so on.

jmsr7 on September 29, 2017, 12:35:14 am
The tree of life only diverges, it doesn't reconverge

Except for mitochondria, and lichen, and chimera, and slime molds, and junk DNA that's actually from invasive viruses (as with corn and human genomes), and bacteria that assimilate the DNA of other strains, and photosynthesizing animals like the emerald sea slug, and so on.

Oh, sure i know about that stuff but the examples i was using were the things creationists are calling for; and what seems to have happened in this galaxy.  And i WAS going to say it doesn't apply to the gluteans but upon reflection i now think the details matter.
I wasn't aware of the emerald sea slug and although it's technically a symbiotic relationship, i would still count it.  Thanks for that!  Reminds me of that termite that hosts 3 other species.  Also, i'd speculate that fantasy orks would have this sort of algae in their skin, making them green and obviating the need to grow crops and fueling a mostly naked hunting lifestyle.  Naked or near so to promote photosynthesis of sugars, and hunting to get protein.  Not to go too far off topic.

Anyway, while i'm well aware of endogenous retroviruses and other ways bacterial dna gets passed around, my argument was that to make a glutean (or any other uplifted species there) would require transfers or large numbers of functional genes of whatever passes for genetic material in their galaxy in a manner that would be extraordinarily unlikely in nature, thus the 'hopeful monster' criticism.  My argument is that natural selection would not be able to account for these results and the locals should know it.

Ming the Merciless on September 29, 2017, 04:18:28 pm
This Demiurge, the story goes, created for himself assistants – bumbling fallen angels called “archons” – and these in turn created the Earth, humanity, and seven heavens which encase and enclose our planet like so many cosmic prison walls.

In a version of the myth popularized by second-century Gnostic theologian Basilides, the archons generated not just seven, but 365 heavenly realms in sequence, nested one inside the other like the rings of an electron – each successive layer just slightly more defective than the one which produced and preceded it, and all populated by arrogant creator gods completely unaware of those who came before them.

Ming the Merciless on September 29, 2017, 10:09:08 pm
And when Ming had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space