Big Head Press Forum

Online Comics => Quantum Vibe => Topic started by: Oldhobo on October 28, 2012, 06:30:02 pm

Title: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Oldhobo on October 28, 2012, 06:30:02 pm
I love the comic, but I really hope that "Nicole spreads her wings, get wings almost surgically removed on new planet" does not become a theme.  On Luna she went out on her own got into trouble and now on Mars it is happening again.  I realize that she's the vehicle through which we are supposed to experience things and that a worldly character staying in their hotel room, ordering room service and minding their own business would not make a good story but surely there's some middle ground where Nicole's character begins to learn from her mistakes?  I mean yeah, she hired a bodyguard but them left them at the clinic.  Additionally I realize that people are after them.  A lot of the things they are doing would not be considered dangerous if they weren't marked but if you could find other ways to move the plot forward besides "girl in trouble," my hat would be off to you.
Respectfully,
-O
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on October 28, 2012, 07:20:51 pm
Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on October 29, 2012, 01:16:47 am
I suspect any sense of deja-vu is about to disappear. They are not authority figures just muggers. This bunch have already threatened Ventura implicitly and are trying to look intimidating. She has no reason not to protect herself and I believe she has non-lethal options in her zringer. I'm going to double back to Mercury and Venus  and see what her beliefs cover, then edit this comment.
OK here are transcripts from after the Mercury assassination attempt:
Quote
Nicole: You have to understand when I got my first zringer, I also joined the Aikido-Lemba League.
Stone: You obtained a deadly weapon and then joined a pacifist phyle?
Panel 3
Medium close-up on Nicole.
Nicole: It's more complicated than that the Lembas allow for self-defense.
Nicole: It's just that we they urge using wisdom to avoid having to use force.
Nicole: Avoiding violence is considered 'winning.'
Panel 4
Back to 2-shot of Stone and Nicole, looking completely forlorn.
Nicole: Because I failed to avoid using violence especially deadly force I lost.
Nicole: I'm not a Lemba-Prime anymore.
If Aikido -Lemba includes the martial art Aikido she may not even need her zringer. Even so, she can stun them and not feel too guilty. Theoretically (don't you hate that word in a discussion of moral choices?) she could stun them now with no warning and still consider it a win. No threats, no violence just three thugs sleeping like babies. (Baby rats to quote Bugs Bunny)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on October 29, 2012, 03:30:36 pm
How did Jafar put it in the sequel?

Abis Mal: But Genies can't kill, you said that!
Jafar: You'ld be surprised what you can LIVE THROUGH!
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on October 30, 2012, 01:23:53 am
Hoo boy! Change that to I hope she doesn't need her zringer.

Any takers on Ma-Bo as the heroic rescuer? No?
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Oneil on October 30, 2012, 02:03:49 am
Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on October 30, 2012, 07:05:39 am
Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. ;)

FWIW, It would appear that the Aikido-Lemba league has listened to Sun Tzu: "是故百戰百勝,非善之善者也;不戰而屈人之兵,善之善者也。" (For to win every battle is not the height of skill; to subdue your opponent without fighting is the height of skill.)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on October 30, 2012, 09:42:32 am
No, it's not Jainism. There is no Brahmacharya or Aparigraha in Nicole's attitude. It's an out-growth of the Non-Aggression Principle, and the Aikido philosophy, and does have some influence from Sun Tsu.

The "Lemba" part refers to Matthew Lemba, a young student of the Shodokan Aikido with Kenji Tomiki in Japan from the time before The Calamities, who returned to the United States and combined that art with Kenpo Karate. The resulting art combined the conflict-avoidance philosophy of the original Aikido, and its throwing and joint-lock techniques, with some of the blocking and striking techniques of Kenpo. In Aikido-Lemba, one tries to avoid conflict, but there is an emphasis on protecting the defenseless, and once combat is begun, it is to be ended quickly as possible without killing or causing permanent injury.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on October 30, 2012, 11:46:09 am
Hard to do "Nicole spreads wings, potential wing-clipper gets pounded for efforts" when your protagonist is a Jainist. Unless, of course, part of the story arc is said Jainist learning that self-defense is OK.

I don't think you intended to use Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) as the template for Nicole's "pacifist phyle."  As that is way too extreme to fit what we see in her character.

I guess if her self confidence allows it, we will find out what Aikido-Lemba is real soon.
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. ;)

FWIW, It would appear that the Aikido-Lemba league has listened to Sun Tzu: "是故百戰百勝,非善之善者也;不戰而屈人之兵,善之善者也。" (For to win every battle is not the height of skill; to subdue your opponent without fighting is the height of skill.)

Or Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant:

"Do not hurt when holding is enough
Do not wound when hurting is enough
Do not maim when wounding is enough
And kill not when maiming is enough
The greatest warrior is he who does not need to kill"
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: graphictruth on October 30, 2012, 12:37:34 pm
Hm... apparently her teachers missed the "not going into sketchy areas while carrying bundles of loot" part. I assure you, mine did.

The actual reason given was not pacifistic - the art was supposed to save your life or the lives of others, not your wallet or your pride. And more to the point, if you could conceal knowing it, that was more important than keeping a few valuable trinkets.

Anyway, she does seem to lack situational awareness at times, and it seems she might well have a bright future as a Doctor's Companion.

However - stun/distract the one in the middle with the shopping bags and disable the one to the left - no time for anything subtle, so something that will require some tank time.  

If I were drawing it, it would be something like a forward roll in to pre-empt a kick and striking upward with an open palm - and while the genitals are in the way, the actual idea is to dislocate the pubic bone. He falls over her as she rolls out and up into stance, behind the pair and beside Jessica.

Bounce back to leader, who will have found a weapon by now; likely a knife. (He simply looks like the type to use a knife.) Disarm/disable while using leader as a shield. Unlikely they have trained to fight effectively as a unit. That would be something along the lines of a joint-lock counter to a thrust, combined with a kick to the armpit, spraining and dislocating the elbow and shoulder, as well as the wrist and possibly the thumb, while breaking some ribs. Lung punctures are an intended part of the package here.

If third guy is willing to run, let him. If he produces a weapon, well, she has a knife. If she doesn't care to use a knife (and if you aren't trained to include one in your martial art, you really shouldn't) then she can just throw it at him. however, it's down to one on one, and she can afford to be careful. Time for a taunt or two to get him to make a useful move; she can put him down with some sort of nerve or circulation strike, or simply "break off the corners" until he retreats.

I'm assuming this is already drawn, I just want to see how close I get. :)

Of course, I'm ignoring the helpless looking android entirely. I would not be willing to put money down that she was either helpless OR harmless. The "nightingale" almost certainly had bodyguard programming at one time. :}
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Oneil on October 30, 2012, 02:19:13 pm
.....
Meh. It was close enough, and unlike gene here, I didn't feel like going back and searching out the exact flavor of pacifism. ;)
....

Fair enough.. BTW, not selling a T-shirt, But I love the last paragraph describing "Meh" here..  http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/8753/

Prediction on the fisticuffs,
   I have always admired ones that practice one of the Martial Arts that wait for the other to attack and use that against them.  ;)

Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on October 30, 2012, 02:59:25 pm
No, it's not Jainism. There is no Brahmacharya or Aparigraha in Nicole's attitude. It's an out-growth of the Non-Aggression Principle, and the Aikido philosophy, and does have some influence from Sun Tsu.

The "Lemba" part refers to Matthew Lemba, a young student of the Shodokan Aikido with Kenji Tomiki in Japan from the time before The Calamities, who returned to the United States and combined that art with Kenpo Karate. The resulting art combined the conflict-avoidance philosophy of the original Aikido, and its throwing and joint-lock techniques, with some of the blocking and striking techniques of Kenpo. In Aikido-Lemba, one tries to avoid conflict, but there is an emphasis on protecting the defenseless, and once combat is begun, it is to be ended quickly as possible without killing or causing permanent injury.

Even in standard Aikido (which I've done some peripheral study of, but can't seem to find a dojo and the money to take classes at the same time), there's not much limit to what can be done to the attacker once they've actually attacked. You can do everything from gently placing them on the ground to flinging them several yards away, either option with or without broken bones or dislocated joints. it is, in my opinion, the perfect "proportional force" martial art.

The base philosophy is also perfectly in line with the NAP. It uses spiritual, rather than pragmatic, reasoning, but the conclusion is the same: Attacking is a bad idea, to which proportional defense is the only rational option. Adding in the "emphasis on protecting the defenseless" makes it perfect for an adherent to the NAP. So, well done selecting a philosophy for Nicole.

If it were my comic, once the combat is joined, I'd have her distract one or hopefully two of the thugs with the shopping bags ("Here, catch!" works more often than you would think), and take the third out with a face-plant into the alley wall. Aikido is great for these sorts of things, you simply let the attacker come in, grab him for a dosado, and eject towards a nearby surface. The other two will either come in one at a time (and get flung heavenward) or at the same time (and end up hitting each other). I suppose a third option is that they flee, seeing that Nicole was not easy mark they thought she was. Grab Ventura, the shopping bags, and skeedaddle. But it's not my comic, so I look forward to seeing how you do it. :)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: UncleRice on October 30, 2012, 03:17:15 pm
As far as I'm concerned, these guys right to their well being ceased as soon as they stole something. They initiated aggression. The exact tactic and how far she should go depends on her combat skills and what the potential consequences are.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on October 30, 2012, 07:42:42 pm
Having seen Scott's explaination of Aikido-Lemba, I'm doubling my bet on Nichole; 100 Quatloos for three KOs in four panels. If they are armed for melee, six panels.

Darn! There go my Quatloos. Those bad boys do not know what they are doing, more used to rolling drunks. Next they will unzip and wave their toys around  8) . That will buy them time while Nichole points and giggles. Then she's really going to hurt them.

She's not spreading her wings but she is showing her talons.

Quote
As far as I'm concerned, these guys right to their well being ceased as soon as they stole something. They initiated aggression. The exact tactic and how far she should go depends on her combat skills and what the potential consequences are.

After her last legal encounter she will call Smith & Holder first then call the coppers from the S&H offices. Once she is under S&H's aegis and they send a minder to check on Buford, Ma-Bo can go home once more having been a total failure.  :(

Then we can have another six panels of Seamus snoring while the conspirators do their Blackadder impersonation and put their collective foot in deeper.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: dough560 on October 31, 2012, 04:56:47 pm
So far, so good.  While working within different schools of martial arts, we each have our own interpretation and technique which work for our physique and mindset.  At 6'2" my techniques differ from a woman's who is substantially smaller.  For that matter, techniques I used to breakup bar fights differ from those utilized to defend from a street attack.  In the first instance, i don't want to send my suspect to the emergency room, if it is avoidable.  In the second incidence, what ever works in the shortest amount of time.  This can leave a lasting impression.  On individuals, walls or whatever is handy.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 01, 2012, 05:25:43 am
Those bad boys do not know what they are doing, more used to rolling drunks. Next they will unzip and wave their toys around. That will buy them time while Nichole points and giggles. Then she's really going to hurt them.

The advantage of one-against-three is a species of "interior lines of communication" in which the individual is better able to marshal and coordinate available resources while the (assumedly unpracticed) trio of assailants are susceptible to getting in each others' way.

The disadvantage is demonstrated in Nicole's need to keep her mental and physical faculties unimpaired, else she loses whatever advantage her training and proven moral toughness might confer. 

As anybody who's dealt with head trauma of any kind will readily confirm, a solid whack to the chops (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=477) will reliably leave the recipient dazed for a moment at the very least, and unless Ms. Oresme's martial arts discipline had included measures aimed at quick recovery from sustaining such a blow (as it damned well ought to have done), she's in trouble.

Meanwhile, Nicole has an implant capable of rapid broadband communication with friendly parties, doesn't she?  Could it be that she has not already announced her plight to both the local affiliates of S&H Resolutions as well as the municipal officers of the public peace?
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on November 01, 2012, 10:23:30 am
After what happened on Luna, NO WAY is Nichole going to call the cops, even the Huoxingian equivalent.

But ... stay tuned.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: customdesigned on November 01, 2012, 12:54:19 pm
My guess: with Nicoles holo hat gone, the thugs see was a prisoner, and having already seen she can fight, revise their opinion and take her side when Curly Que arrives to kidnap her.  Or I could be completely wrong.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 02, 2012, 12:17:35 am
CHARGE!!! How about "We need chopper backup, now!" "I'm coming Beanie boy." "Form blazing sword!"

My childhood was normal, for certain values of 'normal'.   ;D

I guess it's only fair Buford gets a chance to look good in some action poses.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: ConditionOne on November 02, 2012, 07:00:00 am
I take it Ventura is programmed---or compromised by her former owners to be helpless and submissive. Or is "The Three Laws of Robotics" hard-wired into all robots and androids as a default setting?
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 02, 2012, 09:47:05 am
I take it Ventura is programmed---or compromised by her former owners to be helpless and submissive. Or is "The Three Laws of Robotics" hard-wired into all robots and androids as a default setting?

Could be a quirk of the Elder Po to have her be three-laws compliant, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreeLawsCompliant) or may be a standard setting, we just don't know yet.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 02, 2012, 10:07:20 am
I take it Ventura is programmed---or compromised by her former owners to be helpless and submissive. Or is "The Three Laws of Robotics" hard-wired into all robots and androids as a default setting?

Could be a quirk of the Elder Po to have her be three-laws compliant, (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThreeLawsCompliant) or may be a standard setting, we just don't know yet.

Given that on Huoxing, "artifolk" are property (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=471) unless accorded manumission by act of law, it's more reasonable to infer that by statute (or by custom with even greater strength than statute) all autonomous but "property"-status artificial persons would be by default hard-programmed to fulfill the "Liberal" fascist's beau ideal of passive victimhood, to be worked like a Morlock while helpless as an Eloi. 
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 02, 2012, 10:34:37 am
Actually, she's not fully compliant with the first law.

"A Robot can not harm, or through inaction allow to be harmed, a human being."

If she were 3 laws compliant, she would be forced to act to protect Nicole by stopping the bullies (without hurting them) to the best of her ability.

So if there is an equivalent of the three laws in play, the first law doesn't include the inaction clause.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 02, 2012, 11:02:20 am
So if there is an equivalent of the three laws in play, the first law doesn't include the inaction clause.

Yeah, it's much more likely some variation of "I'm just property, and property doesn't smack people around."
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 02, 2012, 11:24:12 am
So if there is an equivalent of the three laws in play, the first law doesn't include the inaction clause.

Yeah, it's much more likely some variation of "I'm just property, and property doesn't smack people around."

Who would need to smack anyone around...Robots are STRONG...all she'd need to do is grab some wrists and hang on.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 02, 2012, 11:26:12 am
So if there is an equivalent of the three laws in play, the first law doesn't include the inaction clause.

Yeah, it's much more likely some variation of "I'm just property, and property doesn't smack people around."

It looks as if it goes way beyond that level.  Consider that such ambulatory "property" is a physically powerful and technologically sophisticated system of machinery capable of self-directed tasking, and a costly piece of capital goods with significant market value.

What sort of theft prevention measures would be incorporated in such a piece of "property," hm? 

Moreover,  how the hell can this trio of street toughs manage to simply grab an expensive android off the sidewalk?  Were that possible, there would be no surety of any kind for the possessors of such machines, and it's hard as hell to conceive that the very wealthy android owners on corporate-dominated Huoxing would suffer such transgressions without instituting systematic and reliable (read "lethal") measures to abate the nuisance. 

And then, of course, I'd imagine that when Ventura hits the time tick at which Dr. O'Murchadha's paid rental period has ended, she starts flinging meatfolk bodies all to hellangone over the place while making her implacable way back to the business establishment of her ostensible owner.

No, there's something else at work in Ventura's "psyche."
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on November 02, 2012, 11:50:43 am
Actually, she's not fully compliant with the first law.

"A Robot can not harm, or through inaction allow to be harmed, a human being."

If she were 3 laws compliant, she would be forced to act to protect Nicole by stopping the bullies (without hurting them) to the best of her ability.

So if there is an equivalent of the three laws in play, the first law doesn't include the inaction clause.

The "I, Robot" movie, I think, pretty adroitly illustrated the problem with the "inaction" law. In fact, there were a few Asimov short stories that touched on that same problem.

The reason for Ventura's helplessness will be explained.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 02, 2012, 12:12:50 pm
The reason for Ventura's helplessness will be explained.

Tease.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Arondell on November 02, 2012, 12:13:47 pm

The "I, Robot" movie, I think, pretty adroitly illustrated the problem with the "inaction" law. In fact, there were a few Asimov short stories that touched on that same problem.

The reason for Ventura's helplessness will be explained.


I can't recall the details but I believe one of Asimov's later works has a society that removed the "inaction" part of the first law.  Also a number of other modifications to the laws such as the introduction of a "Zeroth" law that required robots to not harm humanity as a whole.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 02, 2012, 12:18:23 pm
The reason for Ventura's helplessness will be explained.

Yeah, sure.

And while you're at it, you'll be explaining how the three "Tough" guys could so much as attempt grand theft android without even the equivalent of a car alarm going off. 
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 02, 2012, 01:05:21 pm
Also a number of other modifications to the laws such as the introduction of a "Zeroth" law that required robots to not harm humanity as a whole.

That one, if I recall correctly, came about by itself, and only in one robot.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 04, 2012, 10:38:57 pm
Well, this post got removed to "Talk Amongst Y'selves" even though it does belong on this thread.

Also a number of other modifications to the laws such as the introduction of a "Zeroth" law that required robots to not harm humanity as a whole.

That one, if I recall correctly, came about by itself, and only in one robot.

Oh yes.  It was sort of philosophized into existance by the robot Giscard.(sp?) and subsequently adopted by Daneel Olivaw.  The additions/subtractions and "interpretations" of the laws happened at different times with different groups.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on November 04, 2012, 10:49:05 pm
At roughly this point this thread veered off into some really unpleasant and verbose dick-waving between you and graphictruth. If a few on-topic comments which came afterward got moved along with the garbage, that is regrettable. Collateral damage and all that. I'm sure redwood elf would understand.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 05, 2012, 12:37:17 am
Seems any wing spreading by Nichole is on hold also. Back to "Negotiations".
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 07:31:32 am
At roughly this point this thread veered off into some really unpleasant and verbose dick-waving between you and graphictruth. If a few on-topic comments which came afterward got moved along with the garbage, that is regrettable. Collateral damage and all that. I'm sure redwood elf would understand.

I doubt there's much capacity to "understand" anything in that quarter, but what the hell.

It was when I'd taken note of the re-arrangement in this thread that I recalled Arondell's response to myrkul999's Reply #30 here, and realized it had gotten scooped up inadvertently. 

I took what compensatory/corrective measure the posting system permits a non-administrator, and I hope that these participants will thereby be able to resume their exchange as it pleases them to do.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: bret on November 05, 2012, 08:27:32 am
I'm kind of curious as to when kicks were added to the Lemba-Aikido.

It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

Given what we have seen of Mars, I wouldn't expect the thugs to know that Luna shaves the heads of convicts with implants. Huoxingian's seem rather isolationist and arrogant to me. I can't see learning the details of some other culture's penal system being important to most of them.

In any case, it looks like she has a bit more learning to do in how to apply her martial arts training (including use of weapons) to street fighting.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: customdesigned on November 05, 2012, 08:48:51 am


In any case, it looks like she has a bit more learning to do in how to apply her martial arts training (including use of weapons) to street fighting.

She's lucky she lives in a comic universe.  Our world very often doesn't give you another chance.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 08:53:53 am
It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

How far into the posited future is Quantum Vibe set?

Now think back an equivalent period of time and consider how martial arts have changed in that interval.

Then contemplate the fact that Aikido was developed in the acceleration field on the surface of the Earth, and Ms. Oresme had (per the stipulations in QV) taken up the study of Lemba-Aikido on L-5, where there's only a putative electrogravitic mechanism to be "keeping connection with the ground" among the Elf Hivers. 

This is science fiction, kiddo.  SF writers can get away with all kindsa stuff by way of inducing "the willing suspension of disbelief" on the part of their readers. 

Sam Moskowitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Moskowitz) used to lecture about it at SF conventions, even after he had his laryngectomy.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: bret on November 05, 2012, 09:18:22 am
It seems to me that a lot of Aikido is about keeping connection with the ground and keeping your center line. That leaping kick doesn't look like Aikido to me, nor does the leg sweep. I would have at very least expected her to have gone into Kamae stance somewhere. Perhaps I missed it?

How far into the posited future is Quantum Vibe set?

Now think back an equivalent period of time and consider how martial arts have changed in that interval.

Then contemplate the fact that Aikido was developed in the acceleration field on the surface of the Earth, and Ms. Oresme had (per the stipulations in QV) taken up the study of Lemba-Aikido on L-5, where there's only a putative electrogravitic mechanism to be "keeping connection with the ground" among the Elf Hivers. 

This is science fiction, kiddo.  SF writers can get away with all kindsa stuff by way of inducing "the willing suspension of disbelief" on the part of their readers. 

Sam Moskowitz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Moskowitz) used to lecture about it at SF conventions, even after he had his laryngectomy.

Chess being expanded to multi-dimentions was still recognizable as chess. If you are going to take the name of something, make sure it is more than just as a cool sounding set of syllables.

Although the block looks wrong to me, I could see a block as a set up for the throw in this strip http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=478 being an Aikido throw. She isn't handling the multiple attackers very well though. Aikido does train for handling multiple attackers.

Low or no gravity would cause interesting changes in the martial arts. It would be interesting to speculate on exactly what that would mean to the various forms. In order to do a good job of that though, you have to understand enough of the base to extrapolate and preserve enough of it to recognizable. Without that you get the sound of explosions in space, panels made to explode when things go wrong, and space ships that bank in order to turn.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 10:00:16 am
Chess being expanded to multi-dimentions was still recognizable as chess. If you are going to take the name of something, make sure it is more than just as a cool sounding set of syllables.

I can't disagree too strenuously with that (though as a lifelong wargamer I have to observe that there's no more reason why chess should continue to be played in a hypothetical interplanetary future than that there should be a sustained craze for pachisi, mancala, or snakes-and-ladders). 

Some decades ago, I had an elderly patient who was not only a student of Aikido but had written a book on the art, and he made sure to put a copy in my hands.  I never became a practitioner of the discipline, and haven't looked into the subject since at least the close of the Reagan Administration, but it seemed to me from the moment our hosts inserted Nicole's tearful protestations about having studied this "Lemba" stuff (and her membership in the Aikido-Lemba League (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=114)) in the aftermath of having whacked one of the assassins (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=106) sent to finish her off on Mercury in case she didn't get satisfactorily sucked to death, I did think that it was unwise to engraft upon the Quantum Vibe plenum all the baggage that goes along with Aikido as we know it today. 

Beyond that, however, I figured - for reasons I'd stipulated above - that it really wasn't an itch that warranted scratching. 

You do.  May I recommend an antihistamine?
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 10:05:40 am
Yeah, I haven't seen anything that even remotely resembled an Aikido move yet. Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities. The philosophy, too, stresses defense. Active, but patient defense. Not "the best defense is a good offense," which is clearly her tactic here. Maybe she's just not very good at Aikido-Lemba.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 10:49:22 am
Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities.

I was gonna resist, honest, but....

So when had Aikido (or even "re-directing your attacker's momentum") been shown to work "better in lower gravities," eh?
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 11:12:48 am
Aikido is all about re-directing your attacker's momentum, a strategy that works better in lower gravities.

I was gonna resist, honest, but....

So when had Aikido (or even "re-directing your attacker's momentum") been shown to work "better in lower gravities," eh?

OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. Force goes 'round the pivot, and heads off largely unabated, in another direction. Surely, getting a good hip-toss done in microgravity is going to be a bit harder, but slingshotting your attacker into a nearby bulkhead should be relatively easy.

It all comes down to this: the defender can anchor him/herself, while the attacker is, by definition, an object in motion. Changing the direction of that motion is a simple matter, compared to stopping that motion.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 05, 2012, 11:32:09 am
OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. ...

Tsk.  You're missing the critical point.

"The enemy's gate is down (http://www.hatrack.com/osc/stories/enders-game.shtml)."
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 05, 2012, 12:34:02 pm
OK, so there haven't been many martial arts tourneys on the ISS. But let us posit a straight-line force meeting an anchored, pivoting object. ...

Tsk.  You're missing the critical point.

"The enemy's gate is down (http://www.hatrack.com/osc/stories/enders-game.shtml)."

Fair point, I seem to recall the sling-shot maneuver being used to good effect by both teams.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: UncleRice on November 07, 2012, 07:50:57 pm
I would think that anchoring yourself in a low gravity environment would be difficult without some kind of magnetic boots or other hold down. Action reaction physics becomes more dominant. Upward force attacks that allow you to brace yourself against the ground might be your best bet, but recovery from your own attack could be problematic especially if you miss.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 07, 2012, 08:28:43 pm
I would think that anchoring yourself in a low gravity environment would be difficult without some kind of magnetic boots or other hold down. Action reaction physics becomes more dominant. Upward force attacks that allow you to brace yourself against the ground might be your best bet, but recovery from your own attack could be problematic especially if you miss.

Most sci-fi (and real-life) microgravity environments offer numerous ways to anchor oneself. Mag-boots are quite common, as well as simple hand/foot holds along the floors and walls. Velcro might even be used. That is, after all, it's original intended purpose. And yes, simple bracing might even be sufficient for a good toss, so long as there is enough friction between yourself and the surface you're using.

I bet there would be a great deal of fun math (yes, there is such a thing) involved in figuring out how various martial arts could be adapted to microgravity.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 09, 2012, 11:49:20 am

Most sci-fi (and real-life) microgravity environments offer numerous ways to anchor oneself. Mag-boots are quite common, as well as simple hand/foot holds along the floors and walls. Velcro might even be used. That is, after all, it's original intended purpose. And yes, simple bracing might even be sufficient for a good toss, so long as there is enough friction between yourself and the surface you're using.

I bet there would be a great deal of fun math (yes, there is such a thing) involved in figuring out how various martial arts could be adapted to microgravity.

The velcro method is pretty much shown in the shuttle scene of 2001: A Space Odyssey in the scene where the stewardess is walking around the craft.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: dough560 on November 09, 2012, 02:38:41 pm
I believe we're seeing the development of a defense phobia. 
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 09, 2012, 06:37:09 pm
So that's how she met Philbert (her ex boyfriend). A love story that began and ended with a shovel. It just digs at your emotions.  ;D

I know, but I always go for the cheap laugh.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Sean Roach on November 09, 2012, 07:38:18 pm
Hmm.  I took Karate for several years some years ago, and my sensai had alloyed it with several other things, including Aikido and Judo.
I learned a lot of joint locks, but I don't know what that came from.

Positing that Aikido is all about the throw, in microgravity perhaps Aikido might mutate to look like Capoeira.  Using one hand to anchor to something, and the other, along with a foot, to propel.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 10, 2012, 10:06:45 pm
So that's how she met Philbert (her ex boyfriend). A love story that began and ended with a shovel. It just digs at your emotions.  ;D

I know, but I always go for the cheap laugh.

I wonder if her mother sang her this Lullabye... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZfGyXa1Ic)

(Sounds like the kind of things Nichole would need to know in her youth...)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 10, 2012, 10:25:39 pm
Hmm.  I took Karate for several years some years ago, and my sensai had alloyed it with several other things, including Aikido and Judo.
I learned a lot of joint locks, but I don't know what that came from.

Positing that Aikido is all about the throw, in microgravity perhaps Aikido might mutate to look like Capoeira.  Using one hand to anchor to something, and the other, along with a foot, to propel.

Yeah?  Well, what I want to know right now is how Aikido-Lemba came to include the use of shovels and other Western agricultural implements as elements in martial arts katas

"Here we demonstrate the Qi of the Rototiller...."
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 10, 2012, 10:30:30 pm
So that's how she met Philbert (her ex boyfriend). A love story that began and ended with a shovel. It just digs at your emotions.  ;D

I know, but I always go for the cheap laugh.

I wonder if her mother sang her this Lullabye... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZfGyXa1Ic)

(Sounds like the kind of things Nichole would need to know in her youth...)

LOL! Thanks for that...

My daughters, however, may never forgive you.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: wdg3rd on November 11, 2012, 12:33:00 am

"Here we demonstrate the Qi of the Rototiller...."

I wants to see me that demonstration.

Rototillers are fun.  Too damn much fun.  The plan is for a 16'x20' garden patch, but I just want to keep going and do in the whole backyard and maybe the driveway.

About a decade back, we'd rented the machine and I got called out on yet another system administration problem that can't be done remotely since some idiot pissed in the server or something.  Lisa let the teenager from next door do it.  He went just that little bit too far past the line I'd laid out and found out where the (feline) bodies were buried.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 11, 2012, 12:35:20 am
Quote
I wonder if her mother sang her this Lullabye...

Thank you. I laughed so hard I have to add supplemental oxygen to the room supply.  :D

Verse 3 is far too appropriate to Nichole's present adventure.

Addendum to Tucci: OMG! with ruffles and flourishes!  :o
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on November 11, 2012, 09:19:33 am
Hmm.  I took Karate for several years some years ago, and my sensai had alloyed it with several other things, including Aikido and Judo.
I learned a lot of joint locks, but I don't know what that came from.

Positing that Aikido is all about the throw, in microgravity perhaps Aikido might mutate to look like Capoeira.  Using one hand to anchor to something, and the other, along with a foot, to propel.

Yeah?  Well, what I want to know right now is how Aikido-Lemba came to include the use of shovels and other Western agricultural implements as elements in martial arts katas

"Here we demonstrate the Qi of the Rototiller...."

An explanation of sorts is forthcoming, but here's an advance hint: Nicole knows more than one style of fighting.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Norman on November 11, 2012, 10:43:51 am
An explanation of sorts is forthcoming, but here's an advance hint: Nicole knows more than one style of fighting.

Often a good thing.  If your opponents are familiar with the only style you know, they can predict your moves more easily, and sometimes the style you know won't be the best way of handling them.  Knowing more than one increases your options.

On the down side, there's the time spent learning multiple styles, and the problem of having to choose which option you use, quickly.  In combat, a poor decision right now may be better than the perfect decision, not quite in time ^_^

I wonder if her mother sang her this Lullabye... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvZfGyXa1Ic)

Anyone know if those old Off Centaur albums are available online, and if so, where?   I've got a disc of Frank Hayes' work, and several other discs of various filk, but I've been looking for the "Hymn to Breaking Strain", which IIRC is on that sampler tape pictured in the link. 
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 11, 2012, 12:38:26 pm
Anyone know if those old Off Centaur albums are available online, and if so, where?   I've got a disc of Frank Hayes' work, and several other discs of various filk, but I've been looking for the "Hymn to Breaking Strain", which IIRC is on that sampler tape pictured in the link.  

Well, YouTube has an upload of "Hymn to Breaking Strain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwxguHUi_U)" (music by Leslie Fish (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/leslie.html) [see Wiki-bloody-pedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm:_Songs_of_the_Third_World_War#Albums)], sung by her and Julia Ecklar).  Lyrics are by some dead white guy (http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_strain.htm).  

For a surviving and currently operating filk publisher, look to Prometheus Music (http://www.prometheus-music.com/).  Check out their catalog page (http://www.prometheus-music.com/catalog.html) and get on their mailing list.   They maintain on the Web a Virtual Filksing (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/virtual.html) in which you might also be interested.

Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 11, 2012, 12:57:34 pm
"Here we demonstrate the Qi of the Rototiller®...."

I wants to see me that demonstration.

Bah.  For sheer impressiveness, contemplate the Shu of the chainsaw.

"When striking, shout a good, loud Husqvarna®!"
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 11, 2012, 01:25:53 pm
Anyone know if those old Off Centaur albums are available online, and if so, where?   I've got a disc of Frank Hayes' work, and several other discs of various filk, but I've been looking for the "Hymn to Breaking Strain", which IIRC is on that sampler tape pictured in the link.  

Well, YouTube has an upload of "Hymn to Breaking Strain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwxguHUi_U)" (music by Leslie Fish (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/leslie.html) [see Wiki-bloody-pedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm:_Songs_of_the_Third_World_War#Albums)], sung by her and Julia Ecklar).  Lyrics are by some dead white guy (http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_strain.htm).

Knew we could count on you, tooch.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 11, 2012, 02:01:16 pm
Anyone know if those old Off Centaur albums are available online, and if so, where?   I've got a disc of Frank Hayes' work, and several other discs of various filk, but I've been looking for the "Hymn to Breaking Strain", which IIRC is on that sampler tape pictured in the link.  

Well, YouTube has an upload of "Hymn to Breaking Strain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwxguHUi_U)" (music by Leslie Fish (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/leslie.html) [see Wiki-bloody-pedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm:_Songs_of_the_Third_World_War#Albums)], sung by her and Julia Ecklar).  Lyrics are by some dead white guy (http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_strain.htm).

Knew we could count on you, tooch.

No big deal.  I've been stuck abjectly into filk since the first Noreascon, and my kids grew up singing along with the tapes on road trips

My youngest - a girl now with four of her own - took particular delight in Leslie Fish's version of "The Sergeant's Wedding (http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_sergeantswedding.htm)" because she got to use bad language repeatedly (Leslie's adaptation reads: "...And a bastard is married to a whore!") without my wife being able to disapprove.

Needless to say, she will not allow me to play that tape in the presence of her kids. 
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Norman on November 11, 2012, 10:55:20 pm
Anyone know if those old Off Centaur albums are available online, and if so, where?   I've got a disc of Frank Hayes' work, and several other discs of various filk, but I've been looking for the "Hymn to Breaking Strain", which IIRC is on that sampler tape pictured in the link.  

Well, YouTube has an upload of "Hymn to Breaking Strain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEwxguHUi_U)" (music by Leslie Fish (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/leslie.html) [see Wiki-bloody-pedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm:_Songs_of_the_Third_World_War#Albums)], sung by her and Julia Ecklar).  Lyrics are by some dead white guy (http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_strain.htm).  

For a surviving and currently operating filk publisher, look to Prometheus Music (http://www.prometheus-music.com/).  Check out their catalog page (http://www.prometheus-music.com/catalog.html) and get on their mailing list.   They maintain on the Web a Virtual Filksing (http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/virtual.html) in which you might also be interested.

Thanks!
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 12, 2012, 12:25:48 am
About today's comic: (best Shatner voice) SSCCCOOOOTTTT!!!  :o

Those thugs just dug their own compost heap. Buford better hurry if she want to rescue someone, anyone at this point.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 12, 2012, 12:45:24 am
...and (re)enter the shovel. I almost feel sorry for what's about to befall these poor clods. But given that they were just discussing gang rape, "almost" falls well short of the mark.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 12, 2012, 01:20:34 am
...and (re)enter the shovel.

Well, if we're into Kipplefish already....

The thunders bellow and clamour
The harm that they mean to do!
There goes Thor's own Hammer
Cracking the dark in two!
(http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/8769/)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 12, 2012, 08:41:05 am
Did someone mention Kipplefish?

The thugs are about to learn about  This One...  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05MImdJIrLo)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 12, 2012, 06:31:56 pm
Quote
The thugs are about to learn about This One...

Ah! Kipling. He knew what he knew and people just dismiss him as a mere poet. Or worse an Imperial apologist.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: wdg3rd on November 12, 2012, 09:26:47 pm
Quote
The thugs are about to learn about This One...

Ah! Kipling. He knew what he knew and people just dismiss him as a mere poet. Or worse an Imperial apologist.

Of course I just dismiss him as a mere poet.  In my opinion the best poet to ever write in the Anglic group of languages.  He did some fairly adequate prose as well.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Sieggy on November 13, 2012, 06:30:31 am
I dunno . . . . I'm very partial to Robert Graves, though Kipling had a better sense of humor. I think 'the Road-Song of the Bandar-Log' sums up s lot of current socio-political thinking these days.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 13, 2012, 06:47:17 am
I dunno . . . . I'm very partial to Robert Graves, though Kipling had a better sense of humor. I think 'the Road-Song of the Bandar-Log' sums up a lot of current socio-political thinking these days.

Oh, hell, no!  It's "Macdonough's Song" (1917).  I quote in toto:

Whether the State can loose and bind
    In Heaven as well as on Earth
If it be wiser to kill mankind
    Before or after the birth -
These are matters of high concern
    Where State-kept schoolmen are;
But Holy State (we have lived to learn)
    Endeth in Holy War
   
Whether The People be led by The Lord
    Or lured by the loudest throat
If it be quicker to die by the sword
    Or cheaper to die by the vote -
These are things we have dealt with once,
    (And they will not rise from their grave)
For Holy People, however it runs,
    Endeth in wholly Slave.
   
Whatsoever for any cause
    Seeketh to take or give
Power above or beyond the Laws
    Suffer it not to live!
Holy State or Holy King
    Or Holy People's Will
Have no truck with the senseless thing.
    Order the guns and kill!
Saying - after - me: -

Once there was the People - Terror gave it birth;
Once there was the People and it made a Hell of Earth
Earth arose and crushed it.  Listen, O ye slain!
Once there was The People - it shall never be again!

Now talk to me about "current socio-political thinking these days" again, okay?
   
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Redwood Elf on November 13, 2012, 12:42:39 pm
A shame Leslie Fish didn't do "The Gods Of The Copybook Headings" as a Kipplefish...



The Gods of the Copybook Headings




AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 13, 2012, 04:10:47 pm
Quote
Macdonough's Song
 
Quote
The Gods of the Copybook Headings

Loud Applause Huzzahs and Bravos
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Sieggy on November 13, 2012, 04:34:04 pm
Kipling was not as bombastic or despairing as Graves, though I appreciate both Grave and Sassoon . . . Kipling was much more accessible, and had a visceral understanding of the human capacity for self-delusion, and the unfortunate consequences thereof. When it comes to enlightenments, we tends to come down on the side that laughs  . . . A prophet that laughs not at himself is a false prophet ( quote: me. Suck it.)
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: wdg3rd on November 13, 2012, 09:52:32 pm
Aside from Leslie, Michael "Moonwulf" Longcor has also recorded a fair number of Kipling's poems set to music.  While most of his CDs and tapes have at least a track or two of Kipling, there is the whole album Norman and Saxon (http://www.firebirdarts.com/catalog/michael-longcor-norman-saxon-p-40.html) which I highly recommend.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: xpace on November 14, 2012, 03:52:07 am
I'm really, really surprised...

Nobody has yet to make a comment about how Nicole is wearing a Xena: Warrior Princess outfit - pulled out of thin air - and doing a pretty good impersonation?  :o Or maybe it was just too obvious for anyone to mention it?!

Seriously, when I first saw this page I immediately thought that Nicole had been knocked unconscious and she was dreaming/fantasizing this scene while the goons were still hovering over her, bickering. Funny? Definitely! And QV definitely has it's humor. But I thought was just too outrageous for a rather serious sci-fi comic.

It stretches my suspension of disbelief to consider she was not only a fan of this minor cult-classic TV series from a millennia ago, but that she just happened to have a holo-suit costume on hand. And that her first priority in this life-or-death (and rape) situation was to change into her costume, like some self-deluded superhero or obsessed fan. It also stretches my disbelief to consider that she could pull off all those maneuvers flawlessly in such a beat up shape and under such circumstances.

Self-defense (and I assume her Lemba-Aikido focuses on defense, considering the pacifist nature of her oath) teaches the most effective ways to disable an attacker and to not take unnecessary  risks. But here she is verbally goading them on, performing flashing acrobatics purely for the awe-factor, and acting out a revenge fantasy. In the real world, it's likely someone in that situation would make a mistake somewhere in those maneuvers or one of the thugs would act in an unanticipated way. Even assuming she has either downloaded the self-defense training matrix-style or spent over a decade in training... I mean... it doesn't sit well with me.

Finally, I doubt a shovel could penetrate so deeply into someone's buttocks from merely a two-handed thrust. Was this shovel sharpened and wickedly sharp? Is her strength augmented in some way that readers are unaware of? I'd think it would be like trying to stab a piece of RAW ham or chicken with a butter knife. As it is, it looks like that poor asshole (pun intended) is going to need emergency treatment or he will bleed to death - which would go against her personal beliefs.

That said, hats off to Scott for this hilarious Xena tribute!  ;D Good stuff!

PS: Shouldn't that last guy be holding his gluteals instead of holding his head in pain? I think the tail end of that treatment would be the most painful.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: xpace on November 14, 2012, 04:09:45 am
...and (re)enter the shovel.

Well, if we're into Kipplefish already....

The thunders bellow and clamour
The harm that they mean to do!
There goes Thor's own Hammer
Cracking the dark in two!
(http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/8769/)

Nice! Very appro!  ;D
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Tucci78 on November 14, 2012, 05:32:38 am
I'm really, really surprised...

Nobody has yet to make a comment about how Nicole is wearing a Xena: Warrior Princess outfit - pulled out of thin air - and doing a pretty good impersonation?  Or maybe it was just too obvious for anyone to mention it?!

Of course it was commented upon.   See the "Shop Til You Drop (http://forum.bigheadpress.com/index.php?topic=826.msg23683#msg23683)" thread.

This is, after all, substantially a forum filled with Dirty Old Men.

Addendum: In fact, one hoplophobic inflamed asshole (http://forum.bigheadpress.com/index.php?topic=826.msg23698#msg23698) on that thread had tried to peddle the notion that Strip 485 (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=485) was a concussive dream sequence for Ms. Oresme, 'cause that diseased son of a bitch wants every human being disarmed and helpless even in an online comic strip. 

Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 14, 2012, 08:30:48 am
Finally, I doubt a shovel could penetrate so deeply into someone's buttocks from merely a two-handed thrust. Was this shovel sharpened and wickedly sharp? Is her strength augmented in some way that readers are unaware of? I'd think it would be like trying to stab a piece of RAW ham or chicken with a butter knife. As it is, it looks like that poor asshole (pun intended) is going to need emergency treatment or he will bleed to death - which would go against her personal beliefs.

Firstly, shovels do indeed have to be wickedly sharp to properly cut sod. Not razor sharp, but at the very least knife sharp, and definitely sword sharp. Second, she was going "with the grain" there, there was already significant split in the direction and location she was placing the blade. It didn't go in as deep as it looks. (deep enough, though... OW!)

As to the "she realistically should have screwed up," I refer you to Scott himself:
An explanation of sorts is forthcoming, but here's an advance hint: Nicole knows more than one style of fighting.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: bjdotson on November 14, 2012, 08:49:13 am
When I was about 11, I was helping my uncle work in his garden and we unearthed a rattlesnake. He used the shovel to cleanly cut off its head. Of course, my uncle kept his shovel extra shop since he was partially paralyzed on one side, but still.

As an aside; he knocked me on my ass when I reached for the head and I learned that a dead snake could still be dangerous (but not as dangerous as my Uncle Bill)

Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: Scott on November 14, 2012, 09:49:22 am
Quote
It stretches my suspension of disbelief to consider she was not only a fan of this minor cult-classic TV series from a millennia ago, but that she just happened to have a holo-suit costume on hand.

It has been long-established in this strip that Nicole wears an "Anysuit." Which looks like a unitard with weird design doo-dads on it, and can project any variety of clothing-images. And, is controlled via Nicole's implant. (It also keeps her at a comfortable temperature in a range of ambient environments.)

Also, although I have not really established this in the strip, but variations and re-makes of "Xena" have cropped up numerous times over the past few centuries -- it has a primal appeal, especially for young women with anger-management problems.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: myrkul999 on November 14, 2012, 09:53:38 am
Also, although I have not really established this in the strip, but variations and re-makes of "Xena" have cropped up numerous times over the past few centuries -- it has a primal appeal, especially for young women with anger-management problems.

The actual "Xena" mythos and outfit may not be used in every incarnation, but I'd be shocked if some sort of "Grrl Power" thing didn't crop up at least once a generation.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: graphictruth on November 14, 2012, 11:16:27 am
Addendum: In fact, one hoplophobic inflamed asshole (http://forum.bigheadpress.com/index.php?topic=826.msg23698#msg23698) on that thread had tried to peddle the notion that Strip 485 (http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=485) was a concussive dream sequence for Ms. Oresme, 'cause that diseased son of a bitch wants every human being disarmed and helpless even in an online comic strip. 

Like everyone else here, Tucchi, I've realized that I simply cannot compete with your inner anysuit, that overlays anyone that might take issue with one of your aggressively offensive posts with a paper target of Che Guevara or Lenin. I made the mistake of taking it personally, assuming you could read for content. I was mistaken and will now deal with you as I deal with any other unwashed prophet of the street corners.

However, I do point out that one of the "reasonable restrictions" that most people support is to keep weapons out of the hands of those likely to shoot at the black helicopters and the mobs of Bomb Throwing Anarchists (the ones in bowler hats and celluloid collars) they have a tendency to hallucinate.

It's not the weapons. It's the threat recognition.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: UncleRice on November 24, 2012, 10:13:20 pm
I wonder if The Shoveler (http://"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Men") is one of the sources of her DNA?

Also, although I have not really established this in the strip, but variations and re-makes of "Xena" have cropped up numerous times over the past few centuries -- it has a primal appeal, especially for young women with anger-management problems.

The actual "Xena" mythos and outfit may not be used in every incarnation, but I'd be shocked if some sort of "Grrl Power" thing didn't crop up at least once a generation.
At least she didn't go with a Magical Girl theme. The clothing change sequence would have lasted until January.
Title: Re: A Disturbing Trend
Post by: gene on November 25, 2012, 12:20:24 am
Quote
At least she didn't go with a Magical Girl theme. The clothing change sequence would have lasted until January.

Not to mention the psychological damage to the audience. :P