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Online Comics => Quantum Vibe => Topic started by: emb021 on August 22, 2017, 02:24:26 pm

Title: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: emb021 on August 22, 2017, 02:24:26 pm
Ok, so this is one of the two (that's how many there are, right?) earlier Hugos that have now gone back to being Theo.

I suspect that something horrific happened that also caused the death of "his" Murphy, and this has caused him to "revert" to Theo.  Is he the true "power" behind the Cush?  Did he create or just take over the Cush?  And what are Theo's goals.  Am guessing not good.  Maybe he thinks that controlling sentient life will avoid the pain he has suffered that cause his revert.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Quinlan73 on August 23, 2017, 08:05:23 am
My money is on him taking it over. Even Theo couldn't build an armada large enough to threaten all the other governments in such a short time,

I'm really worried about this "reversion" however. The last time Theo was around he was a genocidal mass murderer who tried to exterminate a religion for revenge. This does not bode well I think for how "Hugo" & his Murphy will take this change.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Ed_Bear on August 23, 2017, 11:09:59 am
I vote taking it over also.  It also looks like his body was more or less destroyed and he survived by sequestering himself in something and then busting out. 

It's also pretty clear Alys's paranoia and countermeasures were the key to this version of Hugo and Murphy surviving.  One of the things that bothered me even in this version is how reckless Hugo and Murphy were.  I would have never gone back to the butt-faces after that first round of combat with the raiders. 

Really, really great story telling in this Arc.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: UncleRice on August 24, 2017, 08:02:40 am
Someone once wrote that "Mere oppression will make a wise man act crazy." I'm guessing that his version of Murphy was tortured to death and this brought out the Theo in Hugo. The Cush then captured the ship he was on allowing him to co-opt the Cush and he is now unleashing some form of vengeance on his former captives.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: cv0k on August 24, 2017, 12:41:44 pm
I am still quite unclear on WHY a robotic body cannot ignore basically any pain / damage.
I absolutely understand that you need acces to those senses, but making the inputs not not controlable - WTF? Seriously, if you wanted to sell me a chassis into which I could upload my mind and central damage / pain control was impossible, I would send you to hell and buy from the competition.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Ed_Bear on August 24, 2017, 07:09:17 pm
I am still quite unclear on WHY a robotic body cannot ignore basically any pain / damage.
I absolutely understand that you need acces to those senses, but making the inputs not not controlable - WTF? Seriously, if you wanted to sell me a chassis into which I could upload my mind and central damage / pain control was impossible, I would send you to hell and buy from the competition.

All fair points, no way would I not have pain negation as an option, along with the negation of emotion and superfluous thought processes on command.

For the purposes of story telling I can see pain being locked in somehow though.
Someone once wrote that "Mere oppression will make a wise man act crazy." I'm guessing that his version of Murphy was tortured to death and this brought out the Theo in Hugo. The Cush then captured the ship he was on allowing him to co-opt the Cush and he is now unleashing some form of vengeance on his former captives.

Wow, I would have turned into Theo even if Theo didn't exist before.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Sean Roach on August 25, 2017, 10:42:35 am
It's an option, but it's like wiggling your ears, or doing fine manipulation with your toes. You, technically, have the ability, but you have to train it before you can use it.
Look into meditation. Both for pain control and emotion control.
Mind you, it's not an off switch, but it makes a handy mute, in the traditional meaning of the word.

I am still quite unclear on WHY a robotic body cannot ignore basically any pain / damage.
I absolutely understand that you need acces to those senses, but making the inputs not not controlable - WTF? Seriously, if you wanted to sell me a chassis into which I could upload my mind and central damage / pain control was impossible, I would send you to hell and buy from the competition.

All fair points, no way would I not have pain negation as an option, along with the negation of emotion and superfluous thought processes on command.

For the purposes of story telling I can see pain being locked in somehow though.
Someone once wrote that "Mere oppression will make a wise man act crazy." I'm guessing that his version of Murphy was tortured to death and this brought out the Theo in Hugo. The Cush then captured the ship he was on allowing him to co-opt the Cush and he is now unleashing some form of vengeance on his former captives.

Wow, I would have turned into Theo even if Theo didn't exist before.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Bob G on August 25, 2017, 08:03:35 pm
I'm really worried about this "reversion" however. The last time Theo was around he was a genocidal mass murderer who tried to exterminate a religion for revenge. This does not bode well I think for how "Hugo" & his Murphy will take this change.


Yup.  Mass murderer.  Though apparently inadvertently so in this case; and if expressions of emotion in a cyborg can be trusted, at least remorseful about it this time around.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: wdg3rd on September 01, 2017, 06:55:28 am
Yeah, reversion in more than just appearance.  Back to being all genocidal in strip 1671.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Quinlan73 on September 01, 2017, 08:28:21 am
Oh, this is going to be a fracking mess. *Goes to ready his fallout shelter.*
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: UncleRice on September 01, 2017, 08:48:59 am
Between 1670 and 1671 I have to wonder if Hugo even exists in this Neo Theo except fragmentally. It's like this person has had some kind of futuristic version of traumatic brain injury. Traumatic mind injury? He may have conquered the Cush, but the Cush have corrupted his mind.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: lee n. field on September 01, 2017, 09:11:44 am
I'm really worried about this "reversion" however. The last time Theo was around he was a genocidal mass murderer who tried to exterminate a religion for revenge. This does not bode well I think for how "Hugo" & his Murphy will take this change.


Yup.  Mass murderer.  Though apparently inadvertently so in this case; and if expressions of emotion in a cyborg can be trusted, at least remorseful about it this time around.

And as we see in today's epiosde (1sep2017) the augmented/absorbed Theo is quite cool with mass murder.

(And why is he carrying a cane?  An affectation?)

It might be interesting to compare and contrast Theo with Alys, who's copy on the Venus project colony did a similar takeover.

Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Skull the Troll on September 01, 2017, 10:15:14 am
I'm really worried about this "reversion" however. The last time Theo was around he was a genocidal mass murderer who tried to exterminate a religion for revenge. This does not bode well I think for how "Hugo" & his Murphy will take this change.


Yup.  Mass murderer.  Though apparently inadvertently so in this case; and if expressions of emotion in a cyborg can be trusted, at least remorseful about it this time around.

And as we see in today's epiosde (1sep2017) the augmented/absorbed Theo is quite cool with mass murder.

(And why is he carrying a cane?  An affectation?)

It might be interesting to compare and contrast Theo with Alys, who's copy on the Venus project colony did a similar takeover.

And he's encouraging them to fix the Drive. That's not good. I wonder if that's why the second Hugo isn't around. Refused to fix the drive and thus didn't come back.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Redwood Elf on September 01, 2017, 05:08:07 pm
Yes, Hugo Mark 1 has left the building.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Bob G on September 02, 2017, 02:55:46 am
So, inadvertent mass murder of innocents causes at least a momentary remorse; calculated planned genocide of an entire race is contemplated with anticipation.  Yeah, Theo is up to his old tricks.  I hope Hugo & Murphy V x are up to being able to monkey wrench his machinations.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Ed_Bear on September 02, 2017, 04:36:14 pm
To briefly and not whole heartedly defend the devil though, Hugo 1 didn't really have a choice at any stage once he was captured and tortured.  Once he was hooked up and locked into combat with the original Cush hive mind, he either conquered the hive mind or it was going to conquer him.  Once he took over the Cush, he inherited the conflict that the Cush were in, which was a fight to the death with the other 3 civilizations.  He could download into smaller Avatar and make a run for it but there's no guarantee the Cush wouldn't eventually come after him and the rest Universe while they are at it.

As it is presented, this really isn't a Galaxy where peace is possible.  How much of it is a fabricated simulation remains to be seen but the universe as Hugo 1 saw it didn't really present him with a lot of options.  Hence the reversion to Theo:  This may finally be a Galaxy where Theo belongs.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Sean Roach on September 02, 2017, 09:36:50 pm
To briefly and not whole heartedly defend the devil though, Hugo 1 didn't really have a choice at any stage once he was captured and tortured.  Once he was hooked up and locked into combat with the original Cush hive mind, he either conquered the hive mind or it was going to conquer him.  Once he took over the Cush, he inherited the conflict that the Cush were in, which was a fight to the death with the other 3 civilizations.  He could download into smaller Avatar and make a run for it but there's no guarantee the Cush wouldn't eventually come after him and the rest Universe while they are at it.

As it is presented, this really isn't a Galaxy where peace is possible.  How much of it is a fabricated simulation remains to be seen but the universe as Hugo 1 saw it didn't really present him with a lot of options.  Hence the reversion to Theo:  This may finally be a Galaxy where Theo belongs.

I see other alternatives.
If he has control of the Cush, he can presumably tell them to "sleep" as Locutis suggested. Presumably, he remembers that solution.
If he has write-access to the Cush, he can run for it, and leave a zero-day logic bomb to scrub the Cush's memory of him, and maybe give them a set of instructions that will give him a generous head start, if he doesn't want to cause them direct harm.
He might just order a good old-fashioned self-destruct.

This is old-school Theo. Someone hurt someone he loved, badly. He will now exact the proper amount of revenge.
We even saw that when Seamus, Nicole, and Buford were sailing away from the moon. Seamus extracted the proper amount of revenge on the police system that brutalized, but did not manage to kill, his protege. Two cops, the two dirty cops who were paid to pick her up and drag her in, were killed by a Nicole shaped drone in a Bubb.

I must presume that Theo/Seamus/Hugo/et. al. has regularly let vent his anger at some group by removing them from the gene pool. Here, he's blaming a whole race for not just the murder of his beloved, but also her torture.

It might not help, however, that his mind has been modified. While he may think he's in charge of the Cush, he may have adopted their objectives as his own, or rather had their objectives written over his own objectives, as part of his mind's remodeling.

One must hope that Hugh 1.0c will decide that the Gluteans have had a sufficient comeuppance when Eithne basically left one of their cruisers defenseless just outside a pirates' den.

Edit. I thought of a solution to the Cush's zero-inventiveness problem. Spin off individual drones to think for themselves, but desire to rejoin with the hive after a set period. Heck, I strongly suspect there are a few human religions that believe that when we die, our souls don't live on as individuals, but become a part of a larger meta-consciousness.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: brossa on September 07, 2017, 12:33:37 pm
I find that there is definitely something 'off' about Theo's motivations/behavior, at least after the reunion with Hugo 3.0/Murphy 3.0, but perhaps it's because I don't understand how duplicates of individuals are handled in the QV universe. In a universe where artifolk/tinmen are routinely rebuilt and rebooted from backups, what is the meaning of death as an emotional trigger or a behavior motivator? An earlier version of Hugo (I'm assuming it was 1.0 rather than 2.0) was traumatized by the torturing and death of his Murphy, later took over the Cush, and then decided to go genocidal on the Brennir. That makes a certain kind of sense. But when Hugo 3.0 and Murphy 3.0 show up, what would we expect his reaction to normally be in-universe?

Should he see them as totally different people who share much of his memories, but are not 'really' him and 'his' Murphy? Like the two Rikers, who are not interchangeable?
Should he see Hugo 3.0 as himself, and want/be obligated to recombine with him and proceed as Hugo (1 + 3)?
Should he continue to mourn 'his' Murphy as irretrievably dead, or would Murphy 3.0 be an acceptable replacement, albeit with some memory differences (assuming she was willing to join him)? Would he be satisfied if Murphy spun off a Murphy 4.0 to partner with him? Does eliminating the Brennir still seem to him to be an appropriate response, when his partner is quite clearly still alive and kicking in front of him?
Why would seeing Murphy 3.0 be painful for Theo, when seeing Nicole as a tinman after her bio-death wasn't considered tragic?

It seems quite possible that Theo's treatment at the hands of the Brennir or his assimilation into the Cush has driven him mad in some way, but it's tough to know how abnormal his behavior is when we don't understand what the baseline normal behavior is. It's an area that's rich for exploration. For example, how much filial affection would Nicole be expected to feel for Hugos 1, 2, 3, ...., n, ... if they were all in a room together? Hugo 1 is the 'oldest' and has the greatest shared experience with Nicole, while Hugo 10 may be only a few minutes old but share all the same memories. Now what if Seamus gets wheeled in in a bacta tank, having been secretly living as a bio-person this whole time as a brain in a jar?
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: macnut on September 08, 2017, 10:07:09 am
From what we've seen in the comic, duplicate individuals are generally not supposed to be running around. Mind-state backups are only supposed to be activated in the event of the death of the individual who made the backup. Otherwise, you run into the issues you mentioned in your post above. Most important of those issues in this anarcho-capitalist society is that of property rights; when you have duplicate individuals they can all stake a claim to the same set of property and assets, which could turn into quite the conflict if they refuse to share.

Death of the individual who made the backup should be confirmed before the backup is activated. However, since Hugo and Murphy went exploring in a distant galaxy, confirmation of their demise when they didn't return became all but impossible. The only reasonable course seemed to be presuming them dead, and activating their backups. The result is the growing clusterfuck we see unfolding in recent comics.

Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Sean Roach on September 08, 2017, 03:43:08 pm
From what we've seen in the comic, duplicate individuals are generally not supposed to be running around. Mind-state backups are only supposed to be activated in the event of the death of the individual who made the backup. Otherwise, you run into the issues you mentioned in your post above. Most important of those issues in this anarcho-capitalist society is that of property rights; when you have duplicate individuals they can all stake a claim to the same set of property and assets, which could turn into quite the conflict if they refuse to share....

You might like to poke around orionsarm.com a bit. The site does include some discussion of people "forking", and also re-iintegrating, as an accepted part of different societies.
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/480fe08113f50
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Apollo-Soyuz on September 13, 2017, 08:44:21 am
So I think it's important to realize that when Hugo (1.0 or 2.0 we don't know which) took over the Cush, he seems to have practically transformed into a new person.

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1670

Since the merge and Murphy's death probably brought out long suppressed memories of genocide, Hugh became Theo again. I would guess we should consider them two individuals with a common heritage.

(guess) Theo is to the Cush as the Borg Queen was to the Borg.

I imagine the cane he carries is a nod to the First Doctor (played by William Hartnell), but knowing the source it may very well serve a defensive purpose too.

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=847

Likewise, I assume Alyss' death and merge came with the same potential personality changes too

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1397

 
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: UncleRice on September 13, 2017, 10:08:09 am

Likewise, I assume Alyss' death and merge came with the same potential personality changes too

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1397
That I have doubts about. The cush sound more advanced and more designed to assimilate others that the Master Control that Alyss ran into. I would wager Alyss is pretty much unchanged from the transfer.
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Scott on September 15, 2017, 02:27:03 pm

Likewise, I assume Alyss' death and merge came with the same potential personality changes too

http://www.quantumvibe.com/strip?page=1397
That I have doubts about. The cush sound more advanced and more designed to assimilate others that the Master Control that Alyss ran into. I would wager Alyss is pretty much unchanged from the transfer.

Alyss was restored back in Oz from a back-up she'd made just prior to the final raid on Zytemonde which freed the prisoners. So, that Alyss is unaltered. The version of her that stayed on Zytemonde, on the other hand? Well, that's another story. ;-)
Title: Re: Early Hugo (which one) is now back to being Theo
Post by: Apollo-Soyuz on September 15, 2017, 05:25:14 pm
The version of her that stayed on Zytemonde, on the other hand? Well, that's another story. ;-)

Yes, thanks for clarifying. That's what I meant.

We should start calling the version on Zytemonde "Master Alyss" or something.  ("MP Alyss"?)

And I sure hope it's another story.